Gentlemen, We have a problem

[Larks]

3 ambulance trips for pitchers in 3 weeks, one of which plays on the top team in Cincinnati.

Guys - we have a problem.

The dudley ball is too hot

The bats are too hot

The pitchers can not react in time.

If we don't make a change and soon, the sport is in trouble. Far worse than I previously felt.

I'm personally going to suggest to the guys on my team that pitch to invest in a lacrosse mask but thats not it. The game is not being played how its meant to be played.

The bats are stupid. Im not going to call anyone out but seriously, we have 325 foot homers being hit by 5' 9" 160 pound guys. We have 400 foot shots being hit by the power hitters. This disappeared from the game recently for a year or two but in my judgment, this summer something has changed.

Either there are far more hot bats out than there used to be, or its this dudley ball, or both.

Its suddenly no fun. When you have the webmaster and 20 year veteran of softball saying its no fun, how do you really think the avg Joe thinks when a ball travels past him at 110 mph and he cant react to it. When double play balls go by fielders as singles because of reaction time. When "C" ball softball players hit 400 foot home runs. This isnt right guys and we all know it.

If you want my opinion, we are witnessing the last year or two of competitive softball in Cincinnati. This town will be reduced to 1 or 2 B and 1 or 2 C teams by the end of the decade. The rest will switch to rec or quit altogether.

[Fourteen4Good]

I agree with a lot of what you said Larks, but let me be the first to wish Frankie the best and a speedy recovery. I hate to see anyone get hurt on the field and I hope everything is OK with you and I look forward to seeing you back on the diamond in the future. What you did by calling Youngie over and telling him not to worry, and by saying that you know that the shot was not intentional, says alot about your character and honestly had me choked up a little when I first heard it. You are nothing but class from head to toe, on and off the field buddy. Get well soon!
Danny Sharp
#14 JLC

[Cowboy]

If you know Youngie, you know this wasn't intentional. Obviously, Frankie knew it as well.

The man was face down, and thought enough of his opponent to call him over to tell him all was OK. Speaks volumes as the type of person Frank Gruber is. I will also commend the rest of the Blitz/Watanabe squad fo realizing this was indeed an accident and not intentional.

Just so everyone is aware, the bat, per rules was confiscated, inspected and returned with no defects or alterations noted.

Frank get well, you are a class individual, both on and off the diamond.

[PS2]

On behave of myself, my family, and Eap our thoughts and prayers go out to Frank... One of the best guys/players I've meet. Its something I hated to witness and hope for a speedy recovery. On this subject I really like to see something done to protect our players. A suggestion would be to make pitchers wear helmets but i know it makes the lower ankle shots harder to see. With the bats and balls I dont see USSSA banning anything midseason. So this problem isnt going to go away overnight. Any other thoughts?

[jellis]

I personally hate when people intentionally hit at pitchers. Hit somebody in the right spot and youve killed them. Where did Gruber get hit at? Hopefully not his head or face.

[JHAMP]

It was not intentional so no need to put up a post like that. It was an unfortunate incident. Unfortunately Frank was hit in the eyesocket. My thoughts a prayers go out to Frank and his family.

[jellis]

I understand that this one wasnt intentional i didnt mean for anybody to think that. But people do hit at pitchers and I think its garbage, I was responding to Larks post sorry. Thats terrible that he got hit there ill be praying.

[Knowitall]

I hope Frank has a speedy recovery, get well soon. On the subject of hot bats. Isn't there some kind of machine that test the compression on bats? I know that these machines are prob not cheap but, couldn't all the park in the premier association go together to buy 1. Then it could just be used at the park with the biggest event to test the most bats for that weekend. I know you have NIT at multiple parks on some weekend but, if the machine was shared and rotated players would not know where and when thier bats would be tested and might get rid of the problem. Just a thought. If parks supplied balls(like some do) it would also cut down on this.

[herts9]

Get well soon Frank. You're all class, bro and all the best in a speedy recovery.

And Andy, you're 100% spot on with what you posted. Hopefully things change before it's too late :(

[Larks]

Update I got was Frank was in good spirits and vision had returned (or was returning). They were going to be running him through some tests.

I have no doubt there was no intent here and this was an accident. Frank is an amazing guy to think of Young in that situation.

But, I still think its a problem. I lost Rufus for the weekend because of a line drive into the heel of his glove Thursday night. He still couldn't grip a bat as of Saturday due to the inflammation.

[Skyhawks#3]

I can't agree more, utrip bats are ridiculous. Play catcher sometime and see how many balls are past the pitcher before he moves. One thing that can happen right away is, parks can ban dudley balls. That would be a good start.
Get well soon..

[jellis]

Also that Dudley ball is ridiculous

[Cowboy]

I personally hate when people intentionally hit at pitchers. Hit somebody in the right spot and youve killed them. Where did Gruber get hit at? Hopefully not his head or face.

Absolutely no intent here! Frank rolled off to the 2B side, As he raised his glove the ball tailed back towards him.

[YoungGuns]

i had walked in right as it happened defiantly a silence over everyone HATE to see things like that happen....get well soon frank,

as far as usssa doing anything probably wont happen ....wearing a face mask is a SMART idea i know robo from titan, ed from SS, and jimmy from cardinals all wear one on a regular basis....with frank getting hit that just shows you it CAN happen to any pitcher at ANY level, he's probably the best defensive pitcher in the game in the city hope he's back on the field soon!

[bigwill17]

we played last call thursday night and they were using dudley balls and the ball was just coming off the bat like no other the dudley balls are harder then the other balls they were hitting ropes of the fence every inning

[jellis]

Absolutely no intent here! Frank rolled off to the 2B side, As he raised his glove the ball tailed back towards him.

And I believe you. I wasnt claiming that Young did it on purpose. I know he must be feeling pretty crappy now after this acident and the last thing he needs is people bashing him. I was responding to Larks original post. Sorry if it sounded that way my bad.

[mwc0199]

larks, 3 pitcher all hit with cnts..maybe its one bat that needs to be looked at. We have all played lOng enough to know what pitch we are going to hit where. I don't hit the outside pitch anymore and I won't swing a cnt+. Players have to make a choice of laying off a pitch to protect the pitcher and the game itself. Frankie, god luck and hurry Back. You will be in my prayers..

[Sproles08]

I want to extend my get well wishes to Frank on behalf of my family and I. Reading these posts, it is amazing to hear the gesture by Frank of calling over Youngie to let him know he was okay. As everyone has mentioned, that shows the class that Frank has. I am sure that meant a whole lot to Youngie. Get well soon Frank!!!!!!

[sdixon]

i agree fully. Our pitcher went and bought a mask, which was very smart. Good thinking Gene. Parks could also look into the bat situation. as in illegal bats. and the ball freezing also. we have encountered this problem 2 out of the last 5 weeks.

[KOSTOFF2]

Thoughts and Prayer go out to Frank Gruber! Great guy.

I agree with almost everyone's post.

1. Dudley Balls- Gotta go! Our team hits them and they make the world of difference. Normal ground balls are shooting through the infield, Fly balls are traveling a little farther and line drives a little bit harder. The only reason we got them, is almost every other team hits them and we were just trying to level the playing field. Basically to me, it's like bringing back the ULTRA II.

2. Mandatory face guard for the pitchers- I don't care if it is uncomfortable or distracting to seeing shots at your ankles or not...the head is a whole different ball game than taking one off the leg or the wrist.

Like somebody said before, Frank is arguably the best defensive pitcher in the city and if he is getting hit.....anybody can and will. Our pitcher got hit in the knee on a line drive to open the Spitz Seeds game and there is no reaction time. I hit a ball personally up the middle yesterday and the pitcher caught it right at his face and fell on his butt after he caught it......THAT IS COMING OFF THE SMALLEST GUY IN USSSA C'S BAT. Problem? Yes. It wasn't intentional, I was trying to get a hit up the middle. Facemask have to be worn and Dudley's have to be removed.

[Skyhawks#3]

Sounds like everyone agrees. Hopefully the parks will step up and ban them.

[mk03]

You can't blame the cnt's MWC. It's just a coincidence. The bat passes all testing for the u-trip standards. As far as the dudley ball, I don't know. Like Will said, Last call used them thursday night in the B against us and the ball was extremely hot.

[Sproles08]

The Dudley ball is extremely hot. I would like to see the parks do a couple things.

First line up the bats to check them before the games. Granted most bats will still pass the altered test but it at least shows they are trying.

The other thing is when teams provide their own balls, the umpire needs to check them before allowing play to restart. We all know that after home runs or foul balls, balls are throw in instantly by the batting team. The Dudley's are hot enough, but what happens if a blue dot or something else gets thrown in and the pitcher does not check it before pitching.

Granted these are two small things that may not change the game much, but it would be a good gesture by parks to let us know they are worried about player's safety also.

By no means am I blaming Eggleston for this incident, just something maybe all parks should look at doing more consistent. And those two suggestions would have not prevented this accident. Just something to think about.

And I will be purchasing a mask this week. So if anyone can get me some info on the best type to get please send me a message.

[cannonforanarm]

My thoughts and prayers go out to Frank and his family during this time. It seems to me that the Dudley balls may need to be banned (probably not going to be banned because at the end of the day, it, like everything else we face in this world, is about money). Not sure if this would solve the problem, but if parks were to provide the balls for leagues and tournaments, the issue of using the type of rock hard balls would be addressed. But then, that leaves the issues with the today's bats... and again, it is a money thing in that arena as well.

[bigwill17]

you can tell the difference between the dudley balls and the other ones are team use the spirit ball against last call and we still score 22 runs but they werent coming off the ball at no 200 mph like the dudley balls do hell a 12 year old kid can hit one out with a dudley ball

[Skiiness]

Very unfortunate what happened, my thoughts and prayers are w/ all of those involved. However I do not think restricting our equipment is the complete answer. This has been a problem for many years. Every couple years they cut down on bat and ball compression and we get the same results. Maybe a couple injuries are reduced each year, but people are continuing to get injured. My personal opinion, along w/ a face mask, the mound should be backed up. Bats will continue to get restrictions but bat companies WILL find ways to improve them. Regardless of the bat, guys are still going to swing hard. The ball will travel FAST!! I think increasing the pitching distance is the BEST way of making the game safer without taking away from the competiveness. I absolutely despise people that go up the middle. I play w/ a couple guys that get that way when a call doesnt go their way and it makes me sick. VERY poor sportsmanship!! Disrespectful to the game.

[Thunder13]

I pitch for F.T.X. and purchased a mask 2 weeks ago. I have no problem seeing the ball, no difference in reaction time, and have only heard good things from other players about wearing it. If you're going to pitch, get a helmet plain and simple. If anyone is interested I bought an Adidas cather's mask at Dick's. It was on sale for $70. It is very comfortable and is the best money I ever spent. The lacrosse masks are a little lighter, but all the ones I looked at were more expensive. I really wish Frank a speedy recovery and hope the parks will step up and at least ban the Dudley balls. If anyone has any questions about the mask or what it is like wearing one just give me a call. Sproles, I urge you to get the mask.

Gene Callen
FTX Fat Batz #31
859-803-2872

[tdubs313]

I totally agree with you Larks. Changes do need to be made. Definitely ban the Dudley ball. It obviously gives the team that has them an advantage. The parks in the area need to take the initiative and do something. My suggestions are:

1.) Each park in the area decide on a common ball and use it at every park. That park should provide the ball at every tournament with the park's stamp on it. You level the playing field by supplying the balls and using one common ball.

2.) Make it a routine every night no matter if it's a tournament or league night to inspect the bats. We've played in multiple tournaments this year and we have yet to have the bats inspected in any of them. There is no reason to alter a bat in softball. IT'S SOFTBALL MEN! Think about it. You've got your family to provide for and a job you need to perform to keep providing for them. This is a recreational sport that we enjoy doing to blow of some steam and hang out with the guys.

[TPE29]

From one pitcher to another, i wish the best for Frankie. Last weekend i took one in the thigh. By Wednesday my whole leg was one big bruise. Solid Black. This kind of puts things in perspective. This is a game. Yes we all love it but we all have to go back to work on Monday to support our families.

[Popper]

Couldn't agree more TPE. I play this game because I love it, but do have to work and am not getting paid or receiving any insurance benefits to do so. I bought a helmet last year, but got away from wearing it because of not being able to see the low balls. After reading what happened to the pitcher in the BASA a couple of weeks ago I decided I didn't care if those got by, I need to protect myself.
When I started this game there was an unwritten rule that you stay away from the middle. I understand that you can't always help that because of where the pitch is, but a lot of people don't care about that anymore. We played a team a couple of years ago that made no bones about it that they were coming after the middle because they were down and said that was the easiest spot to get a hit. I was hit several times that game and almost had my hand broken. That game changed me in both the way I pitch and the way I approach the game.
I have been guilty, after taking some shots up the middle, to telling my teammates 'middles open', but this mentality has to stop! Take a minute and think that that pitcher has a wife and children that he needs to support and even in the heat of battle we need to respect that.
Best wishes go out to Frankie and the pitcher from BASA and both of their families.

[jbrown_2]

Frank has fractures around his eye but is on his way home right now. Doc told him it should heal with time.

[SW52]

Best wishes to Frank for a speedy recovery. I'm one of the veteran players in this city (i.e. "old") and have had the fortune of knowing Frank for awhile. He's as classy as they come. I've been part of some tough losses in my years, but nothing ever brought out as much emotion in me as when Frank called for Youngie to give him a hug and tell him it was ok. That speaks volumes for the kind of man he is, and seeing just how distraut Youngie was from the moment it happened until the end of the day speaks volumes for the man he is as well. I hope we all see Frank back at the parks as soon as possible.

[Larks]

Frank has fractures around his eye but is on his way home right now. Doc told him it should heal with time.

I heard this as well.

[insidethepark]

Frank-

Our thoughts and prayers are with you and a speedy recovery!

On behalf of House Rules Softball!

[BIG FELLA 33]

suddenly no fun. how do you really think the avg Joe thinks when a ball travels past him at 110 mph and he cant react to it.

this is how i feel.i've been pitching last 10 years and it's not fun anymore.after the first guy got hit in the face 2 weeks ago or so i have been hit 4 hard times on the arm and leg and tell you the truth i'm about done.time to go back to first base full time. i hope the 3 pitchers that got hit hard get better soon...

[buckeye_xpress]

Maybe we need to go back to the singlewall, aluminum bats.

[chillywilly777]

Maybe we need to go back to the singlewall, aluminum bats.

When the time comes please pay for mine.

[Pomp]

Sorry to hear what happened; hope Frank gets well soon!

When we played JLC on Saturday night; I have never been scared to pitch in my life, but I was on Saturday. I AM NOT SAYING THE JLC BEAT US BECAUSE OF THE THUNDER BALL, THEY SCORED 20+ RUNS IN EVERY GAME BEFORE THEY HAD THE THUNDER BALL, THEY JUST FLAY OUT HIT. There were 2 ball hit back at me, I caught one out of self defense. There was also one hit back at Chuck jones (the other pitcher) and it was flat out scary. I'M NOT SAYING THAT THEY WERE HIT ON PURPOSE. Unless it was hit right at you, you had no chance to field it. I understand that if we have to bring our own balls, we are going to bring the best that we can get. I think that the parks need to step in and go back to a "true" 44 core ball. I just think that it is crazy when you have teams and coaches running around buying THUNDER BALLS because they know that it makes that much of a difference.

[bigwill17]

dudley thunders do make a big difference in the game the smallest guy on the team can it hit a ball off the fence with the dudley just banned the dudley balls and the park needs to supply the balls

[RB27]

Frank has fractures around his eye but is on his way home right now. Doc told him it should heal with time.

Glad to hear this. I wish Frankie nothing but the best and a speedy recovery. Best wishes Frank. Roger

[matt39eku]

Frank heal fast and safe. Heather and I prayers are with you. Anything I can do, you know we are on the list.

Skeeter

[jwe]

frank is the best defensive pitcher i've seen and a good teammate on tues at westside . this is jim , and i'm totally lost for words how bad i feel that he got hit . he's the first guy to congratulate a teammate on a good play, , drink with , talk softball with and basically have a good time with. hope everything is o.k. whoever doesn't know frank must know that he is one of the best players and best people to play softball in our area. hope you get better and i'll see ya again on tues in westside when you get better

[phatneff]

I wish nothing but the best for Frank. I heard about this from a text message, and I couldn't believe it. To be honest, I didn't really know Frank, and I still don't. For the past few years, I honestly thought he was a d*** just because he looks intimidating. I've only recently found out that I couldn't have been further from the truth. This year, Frank has acknowledged me first on numerous occasions. That alone showed me that he is a classy, and yet very friendly kind of guy. Now, to hear about what had happened after he was hit and to try to ease Youngie's feelings, that speaks more volumes about him than I would have ever have thought of him. Again, get well soon Frank.

Regarding the mask, it's obviously a great idea. I also want to add that pitchers may want to also where catcher's shin guards, too. I've seen those worn by a pitcher or two a few years ago, but haven't seen them since. I think that is just about equally common sense as the helmet/mask. Pitchers don't run, so the restriction of movement is minimal. Plus, if you get them in the right size for you, it shouldn't restrict movement at all.

[Thunder13]

I haven't tried catcher's shin guards, but I do wear soccer ones.

[jwe]

neff , if your looking for a dick in softball it isn't frank. not even close. one of the first ones to talk to ya or high five ya for something. this still saddens me cause as good as he is , he still got hit so anybody can get hit. basically a cool guy who i like to play softball with. unbelievable and sad.

[JDizzle21]

neff , if your looking for a dick in softball it isn't frank. not even close. one of the first ones to talk to ya or high five ya for something. this still saddens me cause as good as he is , he still got hit so anybody can get hit. basically a cool guy who i like to play softball with. unbelievable and sad.

I think he already explained himself by saying 'He was far from the truth.'

[jwe]

i know, just throwing it out there frank's a cool guy and i wish and hope he heals fine

[pineapple]

one of the best i've been to war with
good luck on the recovery.

[diamondfreak31]

Hey everyone this is my first post, I read all the topics but first time posting on the boards. This is a big topic for me personally my father pitches part of the time for our team so every time I see a crazy shot up the middle it scares the heck out of me wherever I am playing. I know a few weeks back a couple of our players had to go to the offices of a major park and ask what was up with the softballs. We are an "E" team and our players were hitting line drives off of the top of the fence. We had a couple offensive ejections for homeruns which was crazy for us. But for an entire "E" Team to be hitting 300 ft. lasers is ridiculous. I can't be for sure but those balls that day were insanely hot to be the regular balls we see every other week.


Some of these pitchers in the game, can't afford a mask especially in today's economy. Maybe another way to promote the masks would be for each of the parks to have a few on hand and lend them to a pitcher via a drivers license the same way the lend out cornhole bags. After a couple uses most pitchers would probably realize that saving up some cash to buy the mask would be a better investment to them than saving up for the next 09 overloaded bat.

[rick2082]

Ok,
I TOO have read every post on this topic, and I too hardly ever post anything on here.
First and foremost, prayers and get well wishes to Frankie!
I've been playing this game for the last 17-years, so I think I can consider myself a veteran of the game.
Here is my perspective on these issues:

1) ALL ballparks need to have machines on hand to check for shaved bats. This has recently become a huge issue and a bigger problem in softball. I have heard from people first hand on how easy it is to shave bats these days.

2) Any person that needs to use STEROIDS to get an advantage in softball needs to get a f**king life! This is supposed to be fun and something to do on a Thursday (or any other weekday) night and occasional weekends. Testing for this should be something to consider in the near future.

3) Dudley balls need to be banned, period. Go back to legit '44 core balls and let the guys that can hit homeruns, hit them----everyone else, learn how to hit actual base hits.


Here are a couple ideas to help keep people safe on the ball field too.

1) Pitcher masks and shin guards. If anyone needs or wants a pair of shingards, I used to play soccer and will put them in my bag, first to ask for them can have them.

2) Everyone knows that the CNT's are hot as hell as for all the other composite and quadruple wall bats out there. In my opinion, I think the ball parks should go back to SINGLE WALL BATS. I guarantee that will cut down on almost ALL pitchers getting drilled! Danney Saylor seems to be able to ban any bat he deems necessary during Metro play. Maybe all ballparks should do the same.
Of course that brings up that issue of people wasting $350.00 on a bat, or a bat that you already have, but think of YOUR pitcher or your DAD out there playing this game and getting drilled and not coming home from his weekly softball game.
We definitely don't need something this tragic to happen here (again) and it needs to stop now!

3) Have the opposing team provide balls.
This could help protect your pitcher as YOU would not be throwing in a ball that has been froze or microwaved. You want to protect your players, throw in a batting practice ball, a mush ball, whatever----the trend could catch on.

Anyone that has any comments and would like to personally email me, feel free to do so at: Rick2082@yahoo.com

Hopefully we can get these issues taken care of soon!
Rick Petrosky

[BWalk45]

I hope Frank heals quickly and is back on the field soon.

This incident affected me deeply and immediately, as I think everyone at the park and on this site has been. We had to play EAP the next game and I made the decision then that I was not going to take the field ever again without wearing the mask I bought this off season. I've pitched for the past 10 years and have taken some shots, including one the night before against MFAB that I feel I'm very lucky wasn't any higher because I barely got my glove up to knock it down. Unfortunately, it took seeing this first hand to make me start wearing the mask every game, regardless of what balls we're using. Balls can get lost in the lights or something behind the backstop, tail, knuckle, whatever. It just isn't worth the risk anymore.

Pitchers - I originally bought the Worth Slow Pitch mask, but couldn't use it because I wear glasses and prescription sunglasses as it was tough to get on and off. If you don't, this is a good mask. I bought an Easton hockey style catchers mask and cut off the 2 side bars to increase visibility. It works just fine. Dicks has these on the shelf. I think a mask of some sort should become mandatory. Sometimes you just don't see it off the bat or can react fast enough.

I really hope that this issue doesn't die off and nothing happens. One incident is too many and we're well past that.

Brian Walker
Sentry Fire

[KOSTOFF2]

So.......

What parks are going to step up and ban these Dudley's and require face masks or helmets for our pitchers. Which park is going to start providing the balls to again level the playing field??


I know it's not fair for every pitcher to shell out $40-$70, so I am asking each guy on our team to chip in $5 for the safety of our pitcher...just an idea for teams to protect their pitcher.

I know being down there on Sunday it was hard to get motivated to play again after seeing it, would have had a better feeling in my stomach if it bounced off his helmet and just rattled him a little.

[Larks]

Some of these pitchers in the game, can't afford a mask especially in today's economy.

$59.99

http://www.cincysoftball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9139

[Deucecoupe]

I understand it is an added cost, but gloves cost the same price and even more yet people still find a way to get one and play the game. I am a HUGE proponent of making helmet and face gear MANDATORY. I hope that at winter meetings this year USSSA will give a ton of consideration to this. As for the cost, I mean a helmet and mask cost as much as cleats or turfs......think about the return on the investment.

[Larks]

So.......

I am asking each guy on our team to chip in $5 for the safety of our pitcher...just an idea for teams to protect their pitcher.



Excellent idea

[mt5ss]

First and most important, Many prayers and best wishes go out to Frankie on a full and complete recovery! Upper level ball will not look the same in this area until you are back on the mound.

While I agree with almost everything being discussed about safety precautions for our pitchers, I truely feel there is a much bigger problem at hand that has not been touched on yet. The balls and bats have become just plain dangerous for infielders let alone pitchers. But in my opinion the biggest problem here is that sanctioning is out of control. I know that in this paticular situation this would not have mattered because Frank is in my opinion a top level pitcher. But this all starts at the top of the food chain and can only be fixed starting at the top. Having only 3 teams at the Major level is forcing players that could and should play this level to filter down into the lower classes making a dangerous game for true lower class players. When you have should be major players playing A or B or in some cases C it is therefore pushing all teams and players down in playing class. Lets be honest here, a true C or D player is not suppose to be able to react to a ball hit by someone who should be playing B, or A or Major. We have here in Cincy tried to level the field by starting the player classification list and in most cases has worked. There are still a lot of kinks to be worked out but is heading in the right direction. The main problem is with the heads of the associations though, to make softball a fun and competitive sport again we have to spread the Elite players more evenly. Think about this, for example, if USSSA would limit Major teams to only 4 players on the Major list they would have somewhere around 10-12 teams at that level. The rest of the players on these teams would be guys playing A or B right now. This would change all classes of play as teams could play higher than they feel they belong now making a much better game from top to bottom.

[softballchick85]

Frank - I got to see your picture thanks to Todd. Looks like hell but it just adds to the sexiness! :) Heal up quickly and if you want to retire from that kind of ball you can join our coed team! ;)

[BT44]

First of all, I wish Frank a speedy recovery.You wont meet a FINER ambassador of the game.He is the Ryan Freel of slow pitch softball...it's 100% or nothing with Frank.Hands down, he is THE BEST defensive Pitcher in the city, but the way these balls jump off these bats...man they do some crazy things.They make it hard for ANYBODY to defend themselves, and here you have a guy that has "cat like" reflexes taking a horrible shot like this? I feel terrible for Frank, but having played against Frank for a number of years, and having the chance to have a conversation or two with him, I know he will be back.For him to be thinking of Youngie after what happened, truly speaks to what kind of man Frank Gruber really is.

Talk is cheap people, clear your ball bags of those Dudley's.The bats are hot enough, and the Spirit and Worth balls are just fine. There is a reason, they keep dropping the compression of the balls we can use, and it's PLAYER SAFETY! I know those balls are considered legal, but unless you just started playing Softball this week, you know they are too damn hot! I do not want to see another player carried off the field again this year, let alone somebody that I know.

I know some of you will say "We can't compete with____ because they are hitting the Dudleys".To that I say, SO WHAT! Is winning a "Game" more important, or doing the right thing? I'll let you decide......................

[drew3]

I have not posted here in a while and have actually been out of the game of softball for some time now. But still love to come on the site and read about local teams and how they are playing.

That being said, the game has definitely change since I have played. I remember when you went to the ball park with your team to see how you stacked up against the competition and left it on the field. But with the technology in the equipment, now it has become an individual sport and you no longer go to the park with the mind set of team it has now become a question of "Do I have the better equipment than the other guy that is going to allow me to hit it harder and farther???"

Until this mind set changes and it goes back to a team effort and not which so called team has the better equipment, softball will forever be changed and not for the good!

Teams should make the consious effort to police their own team and play without what I would call CHEATER equipment. Go back to using the single wall bat with the regular ball. Would teams do this?? I think not because they do not want to be left behind!!!

Sad day for softball!!

[KOSTOFF2]

First and most important, Many prayers and best wishes go out to Frankie on a full and complete recovery! Upper level ball will not look the same in this area until you are back on the mound.

While I agree with almost everything being discussed about safety precautions for our pitchers, I truely feel there is a much bigger problem at hand that has not been touched on yet. The balls and bats have become just plain dangerous for infielders let alone pitchers. But in my opinion the biggest problem here is that sanctioning is out of control. I know that in this paticular situation this would not have mattered because Frank is in my opinion a top level pitcher. But this all starts at the top of the food chain and can only be fixed starting at the top. Having only 3 teams at the Major level is forcing players that could and should play this level to filter down into the lower classes making a dangerous game for true lower class players. When you have should be major players playing A or B or in some cases C it is therefore pushing all teams and players down in playing class. Lets be honest here, a true C or D player is not suppose to be able to react to a ball hit by someone who should be playing B, or A or Major. We have here in Cincy tried to level the field by starting the player classification list and in most cases has worked. There are still a lot of kinks to be worked out but is heading in the right direction. The main problem is with the heads of the associations though, to make softball a fun and competitive sport again we have to spread the Elite players more evenly. Think about this, for example, if USSSA would limit Major teams to only 4 players on the Major list they would have somewhere around 10-12 teams at that level. The rest of the players on these teams would be guys playing A or B right now. This would change all classes of play as teams could play higher than they feel they belong now making a much better game from top to bottom.


I have to agree with this! I know when I first started playing softball 8 years ago, a C player back then is nothing quite like a C player today. Catching gives you a true perspective of how hard guys hit the ball. Why isn't it the way it used to be? You limit some of the best hitters in the game to 2 HR's or even 4 HR's a game and when you are out of them....People are going to swing for a basehit and the middle seems the most likely place to go. Not saying people can't go backside and pull the ball...but let's face it....teams hit the middle a lot more when they are out of homeruns. I am sorry....but USSSA needs to go to the same HR rules that ASA had. I am so damn sick of people around here well we have to play down to be able to compete at Worlds....WHO IS THE LAST TEAM TO WIN THE WORLDS LOCALLY? When does the sandbagging stop and people play at their level?

My team would be more than happy to hop up at the B level and play if other teams would be willing to do the same.

In my eyes locally:
A should be: Blitz/Watanabe, MFAB and that is it.

B should be: House Rules, Pure Romance, Sportsco, J-Taps, TPE/AST, Cope Sports, EAP, Reds Boys, Sentry Fire, Weller Roofing, K&W Sports, JLC, D & S, Local 392, Cincysoftball.com

C should be: Extreme, Backstabber, Impact, KY's Finest, Blue Collar, Schmoes, Trailblazers, Ante UP

D should be: Dirty Dozen, Youngbloods


A: 8
B: 6
C: 4
D: 1 or 2
E: 0


I know I didn't include every team, just trying to make an example that I think every level is a level to low, I know we would like to do well at worlds like everyone else...but the bottom line is I would rather play 6 months of our season at the right class than one tournament!!!!.... Can anyone ever remember a year where there has been more HR's for outs???? I know I can't.


I WILL POST ON THIS SITE TODAY, J-TAPS WILL NO LONGER BE HITTING THE DUDLEY'S.

[KOSTOFF2]

This is our pitchers calf today, after being hit yesterday in the 1st Inning against Spitz Seeds.

[bwoods21]

That looks bad! Hope that heals quicker than my hammy...I've seen too many pitchers get hit these last two weeks, it's getting out of hand. Parks supplying the balls would be a great start. I don't mind chipping in some money for Steve's Mask. The sad part is Steve isn't a statue on the mound like some other pitchers I have seen in the past few weeks and he still got drilled. He just can't react that fast and if Frank Gruber can't react to it, NOBODY CAN! The Dudley's aren't just for the HR hitting, they make routine ground balls impossible to field. You can't even react to them in the field, let alone react to them on the mound. These bats are already stupid out of the wrapper and a couple hundred swings on them, they are dangerous. Not everyone is using a shaved bat, they can just get that hot! Add that with the Dudley Advanced and WATCH OUT!!! I wish Frank a speedy recovery and hope everything heals back to normal. Steve, hope that leg gets better buddy, great pitching this weekend as always!!!

[nn7]

Get well soon Frank!!

This may have been posted already, but I started skipping some stuff to get through 5 pages! Why do the parks need to ban the Dudley's? Just quit using them, period. Save them for bp when there is probably a net involved. The bats are hot enough to use just about anything.

[slamit93]

Why do the parks need to ban the Dudley's? Just quit using them, period.

It goes back to that whole bringing a knife to a gun fight argument. Why not just hit aluminum bats? Why not just throw .40 cor balls out there to protect the other teams pitcher?

Answer is, because the other team is still using the better equipment, so why put yourself at a disadvantage? I will always make the argument that game has gone downhill since .50/singlewall .47/doublewall era, and some jackass will always say... then just swing your est, no one is forcing you to swing composite... That's great and all, but the fact is, when I step up to the plate, I'm going to use the best equipment that I can legally use.

It's up to the parks or the sanctions to control the equipment, because it will never happen if you leave it to the players.

[slamit93]

and I'm not sure if I know who frank is, but get well...

[Cowboy]

He's on the left hand side of the page banner. Weg's is on the right.

[JHAMP]

Why do the parks need to ban the Dudley's? Just quit using them, period. Save them for bp when there is probably a net involved. The bats are hot enough to use just about anything.

That's a noble idea but not everyone thinks like that. Somewhere, someone will always be looking to get an advantage over the other person. That's how we got where we are today. It happens in everyday life not just on an athletic playing field.

It's not only individual players, it's also the major companies that do this also. As long as Worth is competing with Easton, who is competing with Miken and Combat and so on and so fourth people will still continue to get the latest and greatest. Believe me, I never thought I would say that a composite bat made by Rawlings is one of the hottest bats I've ever saw but I said this very thing 2 weeks ago. And that's just on the bat side.

As long as Worth is competing with Dudley, who is competing with Miken, Evil and so on and so fourth the companies will continue to push the envelope to get the best legal (from the associations standards) product they can make. Why? Because people will buy it.

Case in point, use the search function and look up the Use Your Real Skills Tournament. What ball did everyone want to use for that? The Dudley Advanced. Why? Because everyone has saw the way it performs. Per USSSA standards, it's legal and it's the best ball out. Seems logical.

Unfortunately, people had no problem using this ball after the gentleman was blasted in the face with a ball in the BASA tourney because it was a shaved stick. No one had a problem using this ball after the gentleman was blasted in the face last week. Why now? Because Frank is on a prominent team in the Cincinnati area and is a prominent figure? Will banning this equipment help. Sure, it couldn't hurt. But to me this is putting a butterfly band-aid on a gash.

I don't have the answers, and I don't claim to. All I know is a lot of things need to change but I'll be the first to say, I don't know where to start. Does it start with the manufactures, the associations, the teams, players, parks, umpires? I don't know, but it's unfortunate to see friends and acquaintances being picked off week after week after week.

#21 JHamp/Cincysoftball.com/Pitcher

[Blitz70]

I want thank everyone for the kind words. Anyone that knows me knows I love the game and all the friends I have made through the years playing softball. First off, I am going to be fine. I have some fractures around my eye socket and my cheek bone and nasal cavity. The doc didn't think I would need any surgery. My retina has a bruise and I have to have that checked later in the week, but the doc said my eye looked really good. Some pain but the Perks are helping that out! Second, I have gotten to know Youngie over the last few months and have become good friends with him and consider him a great dude! I know he wasn't trying to hit me. So Youngie please don't feel bad and don't let it affect your game. No apology needed! The only thing I ask for is a Lifetime Spot on the Groundhog Team!
And last to anyone that pitches, please consider going to a mask. When I was laying on the ground I couldn't see out of my eye and I really thought I was going to be blind in it and I just remember thinking for that short time that I was never going to be able to play ball again. Its a feeling I never want to have again. I have never worn a mask because I have always felt like I could catch everything hit at me, but with those balls it wasn't the case.
Once again thanks to everyone and I will be back out there soon!
Frank Gruber

[nn7]

That's a noble idea but not everyone thinks like that. Somewhere, someone will always be looking to get an advantage over the other person. That's how we got where we are today. It happens in everyday life not just on an athletic playing field.

It's not only individual players, it's also the major companies that do this also. As long as Worth is competing with Easton, who is competing with Miken and Combat and so on and so fourth people will still continue to get the latest and greatest. Believe me, I never thought I would say that a composite bat made by Rawlings is one of the hottest bats I've ever saw but I said this very thing 2 weeks ago. And that's just on the bat side.

As long as Worth is competing with Dudley, who is competing with Miken, Evil and so on and so fourth the companies will continue to push the envelope to get the best legal (from the associations standards) product they can make. Why? Because people will buy it.

Case in point, use the search function and look up the Use Your Real Skills Tournament. What ball did everyone want to use for that? The Dudley Advanced. Why? Because everyone has saw the way it performs. Per USSSA standards, it's legal and it's the best ball out. Seems logical.

Unfortunately, people had no problem using this ball after the gentleman was blasted in the face with a ball in the BASA tourney because it was a shaved stick. No one had a problem using this ball after the gentleman was blasted in the face last week. Why now? Because Frank is on a prominent team in the Cincinnati area and is a prominent figure? Will banning this equipment help. Sure, it couldn't hurt. But to me this is putting a butterfly band-aid on a gash.

I don't have the answers, and I don't claim to. All I know is a lot of things need to change but I'll be the first to say, I don't know where to start. Does it start with the manufactures, the associations, the teams, players, parks, umpires? I don't know, but it's unfortunate to see friends and acquaintances being picked off week after week after week.

#21 JHamp/Cincysoftball.com/Pitcher


I totally agree with you and I understand that the companies will always try to one up the other. I have recently(this year) retired from competitive ball, so I guess it's pretty easy for me to say just quit using them. The injuries have started hitting "closer to home" now and people are starting to have their eyes opened a little. I have heard that there are new restrictions coming(probably not until next year), but something has to be done now. It will probably rest on the parks and players for this year to make these changes..

[KOSTOFF2]

I want thank everyone for the kind words. Anyone that knows me knows I love the game and all the friends I have made through the years playing softball. First off, I am going to be fine. I have some fractures around my eye socket and my cheek bone and nasal cavity. The doc didn't think I would need any surgery. My retina has a bruise and I have to have that checked later in the week, but the doc said my eye looked really good. Some pain but the Perks are helping that out! Second, I have gotten to know Youngie over the last few months and have become good friends with him and consider him a great dude! I know he wasn't trying to hit me. So Youngie please don't feel bad and don't let it affect your game. No apology needed! The only thing I ask for is a Lifetime Spot on the Groundhog Team!
And last to anyone that pitches, please consider going to a mask. When I was laying on the ground I couldn't see out of my eye and I really thought I was going to be blind in it and I just remember thinking for that short time that I was never going to be able to play ball again. Its a feeling I never want to have again. I have never worn a mask because I have always felt like I could catch everything hit at me, but with those balls it wasn't the case.
Once again thanks to everyone and I will be back out there soon!
Frank Gruber

Great to hear everything is going to be okay!! That's awesome.

Sounds like to me...The man himself has come to the conclusion:

1. No more Dudleys
2. Every pitcher should wear a mask.

[Larks]

I WILL POST ON THIS SITE TODAY, J-TAPS WILL NO LONGER BE HITTING THE DUDLEY'S.

We haven't been using the Dudleys but I have been seriously thinking about ordering them...until now. We have to work together on this.

We play 8HR and 4 HR on Thursdays and I have to say, we are out homered every Thursday night. It has to start with us.

I'll take the pledge. I'm going to start a thread on this. Lets see who is willing to join us Bret.

[JHAMP]

Great to hear Frank. Your 100% A+ class and I wish you a speedy and fully recovery for whatever you want to do.

[Sparky]

The notion that pitchers need to wear facemasks, shin guards, and chest protectors just goes to show how far out of whack this game has gotten. I don't have the answers but it's obvious to me that the organizations need to step up and protect the players. If they dont, then I believe were going to start seeing lots of people leaving softball. It's just not worth the potential injuries.

I think a lot of players wont wear protective gear because it's not cool or because they'll get made fun of. I think if the upper level guys start wearing the equipment though, it will trickle down through the classes. We need the top level pitchers to set the example for everyone else.

[KOSTOFF2]

We haven't been using the Dudleys but I have been seriously thinking about ordering them...until now. We have to work together on this.

We play 8HR and 4 HR on Thursdays and I have to say, we are out homered every Thursday night. It has to start with us.

I'll take the pledge. I'm going to start a thread on this. Lets see who is willing to join us Brett.

Yes sir. We will just have to be at a dis-advantage if teams hit them against us. We want to win as bad as any team out there I promise you that. People's lives, jobs, vision and family are a little bit more important than if we hit .600 instead of .580

Our pitcher will be wearing one from here on out. I know that.

[JHAMP]

I think a lot of players wont wear protective gear because it's not cool or because they'll get made fun of. I think if the upper level guys start wearing the equipment though, it will trickle down through the classes. We need the top level pitchers to set the example for everyone else.

Scooter from Dan Smith already wears either a hockey mask or Lacrosse mask. Doesn't get much higher of a level than that.

[Larks]

Manager Pledge:



I specifically challenge Terry Walton (Blitz), Rob Schlemmer(EAP), Mike Foulks (MFAB), Fred Trammell (House Rules), Bret Kostoff (Jtaps), Ben Morlien (K & W), Mike Cope (Cope Sports), Dave Steinmetz (Cronin), Dan Feichtner (PRI), John Tomlinson (Hart Rest), Kevin Henn (Sentry), Kevin Mell (D & S), Tommy Watkins (Sports Co), Chris Fogt (JLC) & Darren Walters (Weller Roofing) to join me. We represent the top 15 or so local teams in the Great Lakes Region. Lets set an example.

Click here and add your name.

http://www.cincysoftball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9149

Others are of course welcome. This goes beyond Frank. Its a competitive issue as well. Lets nudge ourselves, at least locally back towards where the game should be played.

[JSiler27]

I want thank everyone for the kind words. Anyone that knows me knows I love the game and all the friends I have made through the years playing softball. First off, I am going to be fine. I have some fractures around my eye socket and my cheek bone and nasal cavity. The doc didn't think I would need any surgery. My retina has a bruise and I have to have that checked later in the week, but the doc said my eye looked really good. Some pain but the Perks are helping that out! Second, I have gotten to know Youngie over the last few months and have become good friends with him and consider him a great dude! I know he wasn't trying to hit me. So Youngie please don't feel bad and don't let it affect your game. No apology needed! The only thing I ask for is a Lifetime Spot on the Groundhog Team!
And last to anyone that pitches, please consider going to a mask. When I was laying on the ground I couldn't see out of my eye and I really thought I was going to be blind in it and I just remember thinking for that short time that I was never going to be able to play ball again. Its a feeling I never want to have again. I have never worn a mask because I have always felt like I could catch everything hit at me, but with those balls it wasn't the case.
Once again thanks to everyone and I will be back out there soon!
Frank Gruber

First and foremost very glad to hear you are alright. Secondly, hopefully from this very unfortunate accident brings some very constructive conversations so we can begin to help mold the game for the future.

[eigz12]

We haven't been using the Dudleys but I have been seriously thinking about ordering them...until now. We have to work together on this.

We play 8HR and 4 HR on Thursdays and I have to say, we are out homered every Thursday night. It has to start with us.

I'll take the pledge. I'm going to start a thread on this. Lets see who is willing to join us Bret.

i'm pretty sure you guy out homered us last thursday LOL

[Larks]

i'm pretty sure you guy out homered us last thursday LOL
Ok - in general, we have been out homered all year on Thursdays...with exception to our games with Sports Co :)

[doublezero]

Frankie, glad to hear your doing well. When my pitcher was hit last year,he wasn't quite as lucky. Wolf is blind in his left eye, and will live with this the rest of his life. To his credit, he still plays( out feild ). Not what he loves to do,pitch.I'm 52 years old, and until about an hour ago I still took the mound, no more. I play at Westside,which is a fun place to play, and in most cases safe for a pitcher who throws it 12' like I do. But I'm just not going to take that chance. We were knocked out of the Slam by PRI last Monday, they had 2-3 guys in the paring lot looking for there last Dudley Advance! What does this tell you? Some of us played the game with wood bats, you had a handful of guys that hit the ball out, the rest of us used our skill to move the ball around the diamond to score runs. I guess tose days are gone! Frank,I pray to enjoy wating you on the mound again real soon.

Bobby Ventre

DOUBLEZERO

[rick2082]

I specifically challenge Terry Walton (Blitz), Rob Schlemmer(EAP), Mike Foulks (MFAB), Fred Trammell (House Rules), Bret Kostoff (Jtaps), Ben Morlien (K & W), Mike Cope (Cope Sports), Dave Steinmetz (Cronin), Dan Feichtner (PRI), John Tomlinson (Hart Rest), Kevin Henn (Sentry), Kevin Mell (D & S), Tommy Watkins (Sports Co), Chris Fogt (JLC) & Darren Walters (Weller Roofing) to join me. We represent the top 15 or so local teams in the Great Lakes Region. Lets set an example.


I am personally going to put my WORTH EST bat back in my bag AND use it Thursday. I also challenge the above to do the same. If you can hit, it doesn't matter what bat you use.
Rick P. (RLED/Hofbrauhaus)

[USSSAFairborn]

Parks provide ALL BALLS Worth Gray Dot .40/375. Good hitters will still hit. Little guys with a shaved bat will be hitting fly balls to the outfielders rather than piss rockets off the fence or over it.

The change in the game from when it was REALLY GOOD is the bats have gotten better and the balls haven't gotten too much worse. It is a semi comparable ball and not even close on the bat. If you make a signifcant drop in the ball, it will take away the major effects of an altered or hot bat.

Again, players that know how to play the game will have no problem hitting these balls. It will be the ones who have gained success due to technology and bat altering that will suffer.

Parks providing balls will keep them from being frozen, some high core/compression ball being thrown in, etc.

I use 44/400 Worth Gold Dots @ Fairborn, but with the injuries recently, will likely switch to the 40/375 very soon.

Most importantly, Frank, get well soon! I sold my old mask and haven't used one in a while, but will be purchasing a new one today!

[cbaker]

Well, here we are again. First off, Frank, I don't know you, but have seen you play several times over the years, and I am very happy to hear that you are doing well. I would also like to commend you for being a class individual and getting on this site so quickly to both update everyone on your condition and to defend the very guy that hit the ball that caused you the injury. That speaks volumes to your character, this game could use more guys like you.

Now, I have not played competitive ball for a couple of seasons now, but I have stayed very active in the game and continue to follow everyone that I know that is still playing at the top levels. I for one think that the influx of these "super hot" balls is crazy. I never had a problem hitting the worth 44/375 Gold Dot ball. Granted, they lost their pop as a game wore on, but for the most part, they were a good match with the Composite bats that were on the market. An OG Freak and a Worth Gold dot was a good match. Now, we have choices, and take a CNT+, Freak Plus, or any other bat on the market right now and match them up with these Dudley’s or Evil balls and you have a recipe for disaster. When did the parks start allowing different balls? I am not blaming the parks one bit. They are catering to their customer, but at some point we need consistency. Go back to the Gold Dot. That is a start for now.

We need our game back period. I have suggested in the past that we have bat inspections and BLAH BLAH BLAH, but the bottom line, we as players are responsible for the demise of the game. If we continue to purchase the products, they will continue to produce "The next great thing".

Take Pride in the game of softball gentlemen, it’s a great sport, but for god sakes lets keep it safe. Pitchers, don't have too much pride to wear protection and hitters, don't hit the ball intentionally at the pitcher and lastly, keep your equipment out of the hands of the douche bags that have tainted the game by altering a bat. Rat them out, put their names on every message board you can find. Screw them; they have as big a part of the ruination of softball as the manufacturers

[Loveless37]

Well, here we are again. First off, Frank, I don't know you, but have seen you play several times over the years, and I am very happy to hear that you are doing well. I would also like to commend you for being a class individual and getting on this site so quickly to both update everyone on your condition and to defend the very guy that hit the ball that caused you the injury. That speaks volumes to your character, this game could use more guys like you.

Now, I have not played competitive ball for a couple of seasons now, but I have stayed very active in the game and continue to follow everyone that I know that is still playing at the top levels. I for one think that the influx of these "super hot" balls is crazy. I never had a problem hitting the worth 44/375 Gold Dot ball. Granted, they lost their pop as a game wore on, but for the most part, they were a good match with the Composite bats that were on the market. An OG Freak and a Worth Gold dot was a good match. Now, we have choices, and take a CNT+, Freak Plus, or any other bat on the market right now and match them up with these Dudley’s or Evil balls and you have a recipe for disaster. When did the parks start allowing different balls? I am not blaming the parks one bit. They are catering to their customer, but at some point we need consistency. Go back to the Gold Dot. That is a start for now.

We need our game back period. I have suggested in the past that we have bat inspections and BLAH BLAH BLAH, but the bottom line, we as players are responsible for the demise of the game. If we continue to purchase the products, they will continue to produce "The next great thing".

Take Pride in the game of softball gentlemen, it’s a great sport, but for god sakes lets keep it safe. Pitchers, don't have too much pride to wear protection and hitters, don't hit the ball intentionally at the pitcher and lastly, keep your equipment out of the hands of the douche bags that have tainted the game by altering a bat. Rat them out, put their names on every message board you can find. Screw them; they have as big a part of the ruination of softball as the manufacturers


chris baker ?

[BB61]

Coy Baker

[pezarelli711]

I want thank everyone for the kind words. Anyone that knows me knows I love the game and all the friends I have made through the years playing softball. First off, I am going to be fine. I have some fractures around my eye socket and my cheek bone and nasal cavity. The doc didn't think I would need any surgery. My retina has a bruise and I have to have that checked later in the week, but the doc said my eye looked really good. Some pain but the Perks are helping that out! Second, I have gotten to know Youngie over the last few months and have become good friends with him and consider him a great dude! I know he wasn't trying to hit me. So Youngie please don't feel bad and don't let it affect your game. No apology needed! The only thing I ask for is a Lifetime Spot on the Groundhog Team!
And last to anyone that pitches, please consider going to a mask. When I was laying on the ground I couldn't see out of my eye and I really thought I was going to be blind in it and I just remember thinking for that short time that I was never going to be able to play ball again. Its a feeling I never want to have again. I have never worn a mask because I have always felt like I could catch everything hit at me, but with those balls it wasn't the case.
Once again thanks to everyone and I will be back out there soon!
Frank Gruber


all i can say is that when i heard frankie got hit it made me realize that anyone could. when i pitch i use the way frank plays as motivation, the dude is absolutely nasty with the gove on the hill. he got hit with a legal bat and a legal ball. i know that everyone loves hitting homeruns,(loves composite bats), myself included, but damn ping bats dont sound too bad today. frank if u read this i feel for u man you are the best. now im gonna tell everyone else the real truth, you will never ever weed out every cheater bat unless you take composites out of the game. was softball really that bad with the ping? ill go back

[tdubs313]

Ok - in general, we have been out homered all year on Thursdays...with exception to our games with Sports Co :)

You may have out hit us and kicked our butt on Thursday, but I think we had more beers than you! ha We needed to do something to get rid of our whip lash from all of those bombs! Tell Neffy to tone it down!haha

[phatneff]

neff , if your looking for a dick in softball it isn't frank. not even close. one of the first ones to talk to ya or high five ya for something. this still saddens me cause as good as he is , he still got hit so anybody can get hit. basically a cool guy who i like to play softball with. unbelievable and sad.

I believe I just said he wasn't.

[phatneff]

I think he already explained himself by saying 'He was far from the truth.'

Thanks, Dizzle!

[Fourteen4Good]

I want thank everyone for the kind words. Anyone that knows me knows I love the game and all the friends I have made through the years playing softball. First off, I am going to be fine. I have some fractures around my eye socket and my cheek bone and nasal cavity. The doc didn't think I would need any surgery. My retina has a bruise and I have to have that checked later in the week, but the doc said my eye looked really good. Some pain but the Perks are helping that out! Second, I have gotten to know Youngie over the last few months and have become good friends with him and consider him a great dude! I know he wasn't trying to hit me. So Youngie please don't feel bad and don't let it affect your game. No apology needed! The only thing I ask for is a Lifetime Spot on the Groundhog Team!
And last to anyone that pitches, please consider going to a mask. When I was laying on the ground I couldn't see out of my eye and I really thought I was going to be blind in it and I just remember thinking for that short time that I was never going to be able to play ball again. Its a feeling I never want to have again. I have never worn a mask because I have always felt like I could catch everything hit at me, but with those balls it wasn't the case.
Once again thanks to everyone and I will be back out there soon!
Frank Gruber

Hey Frank, you have no idea how much better I feel now that I know you are doing fine and now that the doctors seem to think that everything will heal properly. After playing with you at the Groundhog and playing against you for several years, I cannot explain what it felt like watching the whole thing take place. I know it was NOTHING compared to what you must have been feeling, but I promise you that is was something that I never want to experience again. Chris Young is and has been one of my best friends for quite a while now and I trust/respect him as much as anyone else in my life. For those of you who don't know him personally, you have no clue how this incident has truly affected him. Think about how many times each of us have stepped to the plate and had to hit against a friend/former teammate and then think about how you would feel if something like this would have taken place. I don't wish that on anyone and if changing the bats/balls is what has to be done to prevent these types of situations, then trust me when I say that it is 100% worth it. Frank, get well soon buddy and hopefully we will all see you at the yard in the very near future.
Sharpie

[Wolfeja]

Good luck Frank and get well soon.

[britton35]

hey thunder13 where di you get your mask at im going to seriouly look into getting one after all this is happening and speedy recovery to frank

[LBlack14]

I played against the MNIKEN Ultra and Ultra 2. Without a doubt the hottest bats ever and 47 core balls! I'm still in one piece. Maybe your pitchers aren't as good defensively as they should be? Gettin a little too comphy with all the whinnin 'bout hittin the middle! Maybe you should just put a screen or machine out there. Get the cry babies out of there. Hittin the middle is part of the game.

Move the mound and bases back.

[YoungGuns]

I played against the MNIKEN Ultra and Ultra 2. Without a doubt the hottest bats ever and 47 core balls! I'm still in one piece. Maybe your pitchers aren't as good defensively as they should be? Gettin a little too comphy with all the whinnin 'bout hittin the middle! Maybe you should just put a screen or machine out there. Get the cry babies out of there. Hittin the middle is part of the game.

Move the mound and bases back.

who do you play for and what position do you play? im just curious?

F.G is by far probably the best fielding pitcher this side of the mississippi.....

[diamondfreak31]

Man you could be the best defensive pitcher in the history of softball and it wouldn't matter. It only takes one shot. The sun could hit you the right way, something could distract you, it doesn't matter. Just because you are a great defensive pitcher (Like everyone on here is saying about this pitcher whom the thread was started about) Your not gonna catch them all.


Seriously It only takes ONE

[AROD13]

The Last 3 years for the Bash for Cash we have used these very balls (although they were ASA, they are the same ball. They do stay harder longer) and it didn't seem to be a problem then. And those are some cold days.
I guess nobody thought about how good those balls were then cause it was soo cold out and all the balls seemed hard. I have all the respect in the world for Frank but maybe this one time it didn't matter what kinda ball or bat it was, maybe he just wasn't ready and off balance for a shot like this. The best do sometimes relax on certain pitches and maybe this was one of those pitches. Youngie is known to hit the ball backside a lot and this time he just missed it and it went middle and Frank wasn't ready for it cause it wasn't normally a pitch that he pitches for someone to hit the middle.

On another note, if you think the Dudley Advance are the only balls that stay hot, your dead wrong. Wait till everyone now switches to the Trump ball. Then what we gonna ban all the Trump balls next.

Bottom line like someone else has said. Keep the batters in the box, and quit making the pitchers serve love all the time. Let them pitch the flat pitch sometimes and give some freaking corners once in a while.

[phatneff]

I played against the MNIKEN Ultra and Ultra 2. Without a doubt the hottest bats ever and 47 core balls! I'm still in one piece. Maybe your pitchers aren't as good defensively as they should be? Gettin a little too comphy with all the whinnin 'bout hittin the middle! Maybe you should just put a screen or machine out there. Get the cry babies out of there. Hittin the middle is part of the game.



You've been lucky. One word for you........"karma".

Actually, two more words............"spell checker"

[Wolfeja]

I played against the MNIKEN Ultra and Ultra 2. Without a doubt the hottest bats ever and 47 core balls! I'm still in one piece. Maybe your pitchers aren't as good defensively as they should be? Gettin a little too comphy with all the whinnin 'bout hittin the middle! Maybe you should just put a screen or machine out there. Get the cry babies out of there. Hittin the middle is part of the game.

Move the mound and bases back.


Did you really just say that??? You are a really classy guy aren't ya? I agree with 'neff...Karma's a bitc$...

[cbaker]

The Last 3 years for the Bash for Cash we have used these very balls (although they were ASA, they are the same ball. They do stay harder longer) and it didn't seem to be a problem then. And those are some cold days.
I guess nobody thought about how good those balls were then cause it was soo cold out and all the balls seemed hard. I have all the respect in the world for Frank but maybe this one time it didn't matter what kinda ball or bat it was, maybe he just wasn't ready and off balance for a shot like this. The best do sometimes relax on certain pitches and maybe this was one of those pitches. Youngie is known to hit the ball backside a lot and this time he just missed it and it went middle and Frank wasn't ready for it cause it wasn't normally a pitch that he pitches for someone to hit the middle.

Let them pitch the flat pitch sometimes and give some freaking corners once in a while.

The ball may be the same ball, but the ASA pitch allows the pitcher to get back and be ready quicker than the USSSA pitch. You say the umpires should give the flat pitch once in a while, but I think that is the easiest pitch to hit the middle with. I think if you move the mound back a bit and romove the flat pitch, middle shots will go down as well....

[cbaker]

I played against the MNIKEN Ultra and Ultra 2. Without a doubt the hottest bats ever and 47 core balls! I'm still in one piece. Maybe your pitchers aren't as good defensively as they should be? Gettin a little too comphy with all the whinnin 'bout hittin the middle! Maybe you should just put a screen or machine out there. Get the cry babies out of there. Hittin the middle is part of the game.

Move the mound and bases back.

Wow, a pure sign of ignorance! Listen Mr. Black, you may be the very best there is, that doesn't change the fact that one shot up the middle could be your last. Don't get on here and bump your gums on this issue. Maybe you haven't paid any attention to what has happened the last 3 weeks, but there have been 3 very serious injuries resulting in ambulance rides for each person. Back up and think about it, I guarantee if your arse gets hit and hurt, we will be on here the next day talking about what could be done to make sure it doesn't happen again.

[pigpen]

I played against the MNIKEN Ultra and Ultra 2. Without a doubt the hottest bats ever and 47 core balls! I'm still in one piece. Maybe your pitchers aren't as good defensively as they should be? Gettin a little too comphy with all the whinnin 'bout hittin the middle! Maybe you should just put a screen or machine out there. Get the cry babies out of there. Hittin the middle is part of the game.

Move the mound and bases back.


I been reading this, an looking at everyone's point of view. But this post seems to stand out. It maybe your opinion but I would like to challenge it. Name the field! I will pay for the umpires you make the rules for equipment and we will play! Last time I checked my team has the same issues that are being addressed here. We don't make the rules, we just play by them. Some of us have played in the days you stated. But I can assure you the level, talent, and pace of the game has not slowed down from those days!

[BT44]

I played against the MNIKEN Ultra and Ultra 2. Without a doubt the hottest bats ever and 47 core balls! I'm still in one piece. Maybe your pitchers aren't as good defensively as they should be? Gettin a little too comphy with all the whinnin 'bout hittin the middle! Maybe you should just put a screen or machine out there. Get the cry babies out of there. Hittin the middle is part of the game.

Move the mound and bases back.

Well you put those Dudley's into a game with composite bats, and you are just about back to the Ultra/Ultra 2 days.
The mound issue has been adressed with the floating rubber, which you gives you an extra six feet to work with, and we are still seeing some nasty injuries. The only point you have made here that I can agree with is moving the bases back, but not for the reasons we are talking about here.
Hitting the middle is part of the game, but NOBODY wants to see somebody sustain an injury like this, we are playing a game for fun, and that's the way we would like to keep it.I can pretty much guarantee you that you are in the minority with your "opinion"

[bombsaway]

first bats now the balls we use..i hate hearing about pitchers that get hit by batted balls,we had our pitcher hit in the leg and in our airway game there pitcher got hit in the side of the head in the c slam. we use spirit 44/400 balls.i hadnt even heard of a spirt ball til this year, and with being able to throw a new ball out each inning the ball will continue to stay hard during the game.those dudley balls are hard as a rock i understand that. I went to alabama in feb. we used 47 525 dudley advanced titaniums,now thats what they always use down south and middle is a huge part of the game there,they dont even give a wave or im sorry.but overall hitting the middle is part of the game and it is a part i do not take part in at anytime alot of pitchers take pride in fielding there position.all i can say is that if a ball gives u advantage and is legal why not use it.pitchers know what ball there throwing to a batter and if they would happen to see that its a dudley then they must do the best they can to defend it.i dont pitch on a regular basis so i can say that defending the middle is easy or difficult but as a pitcher you know what may happen after the ball is thrown.what if if were a spirt or worth ball that got the best of a pitcher would u want to throw that ball out as well??just these bad instances make us want to narrow the game down to a wiffle ball game.bat and ball technology is ahead of the game i agree and all i can say is pitchers may need to go to a helmet or somesort of facial protection to protect themselves.Couldn't hurt.

[politicalgains]

you can get a Adidas fast Pitch helmet with mask for 20 bucks at dicks

[bombsaway]

i am sorry to hear what happened this weekened and i hope he has a quick recovery.

[bwoods21]

first bats now the balls we use..i hate hearing about pitchers that get hit by batted balls,we had our pitcher hit in the leg and in our airway game there pitcher got hit in the side of the head in the c slam. we use spirit 44/400 balls.i hadnt even heard of a spirt ball til this year, and with being able to throw a new ball out each inning the ball will continue to stay hard during the game.those dudley balls are hard as a rock i understand that. I went to alabama in feb. we used 47 525 dudley advanced titaniums,now thats what they always use down south and middle is a huge part of the game there,they dont even give a wave or im sorry.but overall hitting the middle is part of the game and it is a part i do not take part in at anytime alot of pitchers take pride in fielding there position.all i can say is that if a ball gives u advantage and is legal why not use it.pitchers know what ball there throwing to a batter and if they would happen to see that its a dudley then they must do the best they can to defend it.i dont pitch on a regular basis so i can say that defending the middle is easy or difficult but as a pitcher you know what may happen after the ball is thrown.what if if were a spirt or worth ball that got the best of a pitcher would u want to throw that ball out as well??just these bad instances make us want to narrow the game down to a wiffle ball game.bat and ball technology is ahead of the game i agree and all i can say is pitchers may need to go to a helmet or somesort of facial protection to protect themselves.Couldn't hurt.

Mr. Rovekamp, "what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."---Billy Madison

LOL, Just Kidding....LMAO...Sorry for the Hi-jack, I just wanted to be like UFreak once and now I'm scarred for life!!! :)

[pezarelli711]

I played against the MNIKEN Ultra and Ultra 2. Without a doubt the hottest bats ever and 47 core balls! I'm still in one piece. Maybe your pitchers aren't as good defensively as they should be? Gettin a little too comphy with all the whinnin 'bout hittin the middle! Maybe you should just put a screen or machine out there. Get the cry babies out of there. Hittin the middle is part of the game.

Move the mound and bases back.

let me say what everyone else already should have... you are an idiot

[Diamond]

i second that

[bombsaway]

Mr. Rovekamp, "what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."---Billy Madison

LOL, Just Kidding....LMAO...Sorry for the Hi-jack, I just wanted to be like UFreak once and now I'm scarred for life!!! :)

i almost teared up there for a second buddy...just saying that the balls are not the problem,if they are 44/400 then there legal. why wouldnt a company make a ball that doesnt go mush after a few hits better preformance is the objective of all companies isnt it?any pitcher could be hit by any manufactures ball,cutting the dudley ball out isnt going to solve the middle hitting issue, intential/un-intential..

[BT44]

i almost teared up there for a second buddy...just saying that the balls are not the problem,if they are 44/400 then there legal. why wouldnt a company make a ball that doesnt go mush after a few hits better preformance is the objective of all companies isnt it?any pitcher could be hit by any manufactures ball,cutting the dudley ball out isnt going to solve the middle hitting issue, intential/un-intential..

You are correct, any ball could cause the same harm, and the Dudley's are a legal U-Trip ball. However, when one particular ball's performance exceeds that of another of the same core and compression, there is where you have the problem.It will not solve the "middle hitting issue" correct, but it can reduce the speed in which the ball arrives there.

In the last 3 weeks there have been 3 SERIOUS injuries, all I am saying is let's do our part in helping reduce the risk to ALL involved in the game.

[bombsaway]

one of them was in our game vs airway and we use the spirit ball so there is a prime example that its not totally all the type of ball your using.all the dudley ball does is keep its form when struck and stays harder longer, kinda of like any other ball on viagra..dudley,decker,and trump evil balls have always had better preformance than the worth balls etc. even if you throw the dudley ball out i dont see any changes in accidents every once in a while it will happen,its a sad part of any sport that people get hurt.

[herts9]

There's a fine line about hitting middle for a hit and hitting middle as an intent to injure, or so I thought. We were playing a co-ed game last night (I'm not going to say where or against whom) and we were winning against "a team that is not used to losing". Most of us are E tournament players (the guys, that is) and most of their guys are good C players with a B player mixed in. We'll, long story short, we're up 20-8 in the 5th and a guy gets up, who happened to walk twice before, and promptly tells our female catcher, out of earshot of the umpire, that he's "going to take our pitcher's face off". Our E player of a pitcher, mind you.

Since when did this game get SO overrun with jerks, hardasses and hotheads? Play the damn game with humility and check your ego at the gate. Takes a big man to take a stick and hit a ball thrown to him off a complete strangers head and ruin his life. Kudos to the big men out there that let their solid game do their talking for them.

[laser_21]

The Dudley ball is too hot? are you kidding me every ball out there is hot hell I seen C, B and A players hit 40 core balls 400 feet I know I was pitching.
Talking to Saylor in the past they have dropped the core of the ball 7 times so that’s not going to help.

The bats are too hot What a joke I'll be the first I love the bats but at the same time I used to love the single and double wall bats also back in the day. HELL yes these composite bats are hot!! ALL OF THEM!!

The pitchers cannot react in time Pitchers haven't fielded the middle ever since the composite bats started getting hot. I been pitching for many years now and decided for good reason I'm playing outfield again in 2008. I'll be one of the first to admit I don't want my grill smashed in!!!!!!!! Pitching is no joke who wants to be suited up in a football uniform just to pitch.

I'm playing with a bunch of guys I grew up with this 2008 year and seen my good friend pitch this past weekend up at Rumpke in a C round robin. He took one off the middle of the chest that no one on the field or even in the park seen when it was hit. I couldn’t even imagined if the ball would have hit him in the head of maybe even directly in the heart.. We are all glad to say he checked out alright at the hospital and is just suffering from deep bruises in the chest area but let’s just say when it happens to you, a family member or someone you grew up with it makes you think very hard about a lot of different things. It’s a fun sport we all love it but it’s gotten to dangerous in the past few years!

You know the bat companies are not going to fix it.
You know the ball companies are not going to fix it.
ASA and USSSA need to fix it and the players need to help.
ASA and USSSA need to say no composite bats or
every player on the field needs to keep them at home and
swing something else.

I don’t remember having these many issues when the ball was 50 or 47 core and we all swung aluminum bats and still hit a ton of home runs.
Guys that are 125 pounds and dropping 325 – 350 feet home runs and shooting balls past pitchers like laser beams is starting to get stupid.

2008 METRO Composite free Hmmmmmm that would be something huh?
Is it a sanction tournament still if not I’m thinking Saylor could do that?
I know I hear it all the time how much money would he lose then with teams not wanting to play.
Better to lose money then a serious injury or your life.

[huntinfred]

You haven't fielded anything since you stopped playing the outfield

[owens25]

i was at tournament a couple weeks ago, i think it was the D city slam and one of the pitchers got pegged in the face. had to be rushed to the hospital and the team i was playing for at the time our pitcher was standing right there and he was holding on to his mask he wears in all the games he pitches...we started talking with a couple of other players about new rules to keep the middle (closed) and a mask is a good idea also...i thought of another one.....how bout if they put a 6 foot high net about two feet wide right next to the pitchers mound...and after you throw you can stand behind it if you want....and if the batter hits the net its a dead ball out. and the runners will not be able to advance. that way we can keep the game fun and safe. what dio you think

[BT44]

There's a fine line about hitting middle for a hit and hitting middle as an intent to injure, or so I thought. We were playing a co-ed game last night (I'm not going to say where or against whom) and we were winning against "a team that is not used to losing". Most of us are E tournament players (the guys, that is) and most of their guys are good C players with a B player mixed in. We'll, long story short, we're up 20-8 in the 5th and a guy gets up, who happened to walk twice before, and promptly tells our female catcher, out of earshot of the umpire, that he's "going to take our pitcher's face off". Our E player of a pitcher, mind you.

Since when did this game get SO overrun with jerks, hardasses and hotheads? Play the damn game with humility and check your ego at the gate. Takes a big man to take a stick and hit a ball thrown to him off a complete strangers head and ruin his life. Kudos to the big men out there that let their solid game do their talking for them.

It's been headed in a downward spiral for awhile now, it's a shame, because it can be really fun if people will let it.Way too many egos walking into the parks these days, you've hit the nail on the head on this one.

[bombsaway]

all in all you can ask alot of pitchers that like to field the middle that with runners on it is an easy way to turn a double play ball when a one hoppers comes back at you.they introduced the 6 feet behind the rubber rule to help give the pitchers somewhat of a better chance to field a batted ball i dont see many pitchers taking advantage of this rule.every pitcher has an oportunity to wear a mask they make various styles,if you dont have one on ur at risk,how many thread's have there been about a pitcher that took one off his foot,shin,or balls that hits his glove?the middle will always be open its just up to the pitcher to field it or get the hell out of the way.you cant start putting a screen up or adding rules to usssa on dead ball outs that isnt going to fly.

[phatneff]

There's a fine line about hitting middle for a hit and hitting middle as an intent to injure, or so I thought. We were playing a co-ed game last night (I'm not going to say where or against whom) and we were winning against "a team that is not used to losing". Most of us are E tournament players (the guys, that is) and most of their guys are good C players with a B player mixed in. We'll, long story short, we're up 20-8 in the 5th and a guy gets up, who happened to walk twice before, and promptly tells our female catcher, out of earshot of the umpire, that he's "going to take our pitcher's face off". Our E player of a pitcher, mind you.

I don't think this is exactly how it went down, based on what I heard from someone who was playing in the game. Plus, they had three D players and Cheese and another guy. But your point has been made.

[herts9]

Far be it for our little E recreational team to get middle shot at by Cheese. Guys see us on top, get pissed and let their emotions want to hurt people. That's the point.

I'm quite curious as to why you THINK it didn't go down this way. I played in the game...I didn't HEAR about it from somebody who did.

All of their guys would be on TOP D teams, if not C teams (other than Spicer, of course)...so perhaps player classification needs to re-evaluated here. I've been around for over a decade in this game. I know what I see when I see it.

[bombsaway]

league nights are an open roster night for swings.you cant classify league nights,people work and run late or have other things to do,u would have a ton of forfeits if u wouldnt allow teams to pickup players

[mwc0199]

As long as we play the game, there is always a risk on injury. We all know that. I think to place a net up would take away from the game completely. I remember years ago every bat you had almost had to be re-certified, ball compresstion dropped, pitching rubber moved back.. to protect the game and pitcher ! Here we are in 08 talking about the same thing. Its really sad that anyone gets hit or hurt, but thats is the risk we take. People that play the game today are bigger, stronger and hit a lot harder then they did years ago. Theres nothing that going to change that. I personally won't hit the middle anymore at all. I worked hard all off season on pulling more balls and hitting gaps in out field, with a 3 man theres alot more green there than up the middle. To best of my knowledge bat standards have not changed to make bats any better than they where say 5 years ago, so I don't think we can blame it on the bats. If everyone plays smart and plays hard, we all should go home safe..

[sns]

Neff heard it from me, I too was playing in that game last night. First, yes Cheese plays for a C team, 3 of the guys play for D teams, and the other guy plays in that league on Mondays only. They were short a team and asked us to fill in, we have a different team each week. Cheese did not take a middle shot at your pitcher. He half swung in an attempt to get a hit between your 1st and 2nd baseman (it was not the 5th inning when this happened it was his 2nd at bat), it turned out to be a 47 hopper that your pitcher fielded, and that Cheese wasn't even running out. Did you pitcher put his ego aside and just make the routine throw to the first base? No, he stared Cheese down and then trotted over to first base, making a big production out of it. Did he really think he wouldn't get a reaction from that? Cheese then said something to the effect that he didn’t really think the pitcher would want to field what he could hit at him, and that was the end of it. There were no shots at your pitcher from us in the game, there was no attempt from anyone on our team to hurt any of your players, and I personally take offense that you seem to think there was. Like you said it is a recreational co-ed league, clearly not something to hurt someone or get hurt over!

[herts9]

Yeah, because Spicer never gets upset about the littlest thing that goes on on a softball field :rolleyes: Personally, I could care less about who stares who down or who snaps who off.

When something is said to the effect of "your pitcher better watch his face", I have a problem with that. So SHOULD everybody else.

I'm not pissed, and I'm not about to get into an internet pissing contest about what was said, or what was not said, or who heard what. I know what was said, and the fact that the events didn't transpire like the batter had dictated, makes me happy.

[UFreak]

Mr. Rovekamp, "what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."---Billy Madison

LOL, Just Kidding....LMAO...Sorry for the Hi-jack, I just wanted to be like UFreak once and now I'm scarred for life!!! :)

HEY, HEY, HEY!.......INSANELY IDIOTIC and UFREAK, in the same post?.....
Sorry, but even the most ACCOMPLISHED Fiction writer cannot bridge that HUGE gap!!!....that, or its REAL UFreakin' easy,...its one of the other.

[bombsaway]

i have personally seen alot of pitchers take there shots at batters who dribble the ball back up the middle of if they catch a hard hit ball.i understand where there coming from saying middle's closed or something to that effect.for every action there is a reaction thats human nature and in softball it tends to happen alot. some pitchers get ahead of themselves with there mouth and there and plenty of others that say nothing at all.sadly it tends to be ther ones who say nothing that get hurt.

[phatneff]

I'll say this about our team..........when Rufus is pitching, there is no reason to go "at" him. Everyone knows that he has no power in his bat so he wouldn't be able to retaliate. So if you think that someone from our team has intentionally gone up the middle, you better go at that guy and not Rufus. He is harmless!

[Tiger Fitness]

I'll say this about our team..........when Rufus is pitching, there is no reason to go "at" him. Everyone knows that he has no power in his bat so he wouldn't be able to retaliate. So if you think that someone from our team has intentionally gone up the middle, you better go at that guy and not Rufus. He is harmless!

Just go at their 3b and you will get a hit EVERY time....:-)

[JDizzle21]

Well I know from a standpoint when I make a play pitching, majority of the time it is out of luck or it scared the crap out of me and I caught it out of self defense. It is an instant adrenaline(sp) rush. I dont mean to make a scene out of it, I am just happy I caught it. In todays game it is stupid to say anything as a pitcher or as a batter to the pitcher. Your pitcher does not appreciate that at all. Just play the game, apologise if you do it accidently , and dont say 'my bad' if you meant to do it.

[iplayeball]

after what happened this weekend in a game that cheese was a part of, I think talking about talking about taking someones head off is out of order......we all know that is cheese's game, he talks smack, he tries to get in your head. He is playing C ball, you have to realize what he's doing and why he's doing it. it helps keep him on top of hsi game, he pitches and this is his way of keeping himself "pumped". Most teams usually jsut laugh it off and move on, if it worked more than half the time he would be playing higher than C ball.

[phatneff]

Just go at their 3b and you will get a hit EVERY time....:-)

please do!! I'll be dressed like Chris Osgood, so bring your hardest shot!! :o)

[Tiger Fitness]

Here you go Neff

http://www.goaliemonkey.com/

[phatneff]

Thanks, but I already have that stuff!

[YoungGuns]

There's a fine line about hitting middle for a hit and hitting middle as an intent to injure, or so I thought. We were playing a co-ed game last night (I'm not going to say where or against whom) and we were winning against "a team that is not used to losing". Most of us are E tournament players (the guys, that is) and most of their guys are good C players with a B player mixed in. We'll, long story short, we're up 20-8 in the 5th and a guy gets up, who happened to walk twice before, and promptly tells our female catcher, out of earshot of the umpire, that he's "going to take our pitcher's face off". Our E player of a pitcher, mind you.

Since when did this game get SO overrun with jerks, hardasses and hotheads? Play the damn game with humility and check your ego at the gate. Takes a big man to take a stick and hit a ball thrown to him off a complete strangers head and ruin his life. Kudos to the big men out there that let their solid game do their talking for them.

i believe the same thing happened last year when an "e" team was beating up on an upped team

[buffbigo]

Why not just do like NSA and put the pitchers circle. That would discourage players from going up the middle unless you can put it over the pitcher. That way hitting the pitcher or hitting in the circle would be an automatic out wether you can't hit or do it intentional.

[28SS]

As long as we play the game, there is always a risk on injury. We all know that. I think to place a net up would take away from the game completely. I remember years ago every bat you had almost had to be re-certified, ball compresstion dropped, pitching rubber moved back.. to protect the game and pitcher ! Here we are in 08 talking about the same thing. Its really sad that anyone gets hit or hurt, but thats is the risk we take. People that play the game today are bigger, stronger and hit a lot harder then they did years ago. Theres nothing that going to change that. I personally won't hit the middle anymore at all. I worked hard all off season on pulling more balls and hitting gaps in out field, with a 3 man theres alot more green there than up the middle. To best of my knowledge bat standards have not changed to make bats any better than they where say 5 years ago, so I don't think we can blame it on the bats. If everyone plays smart and plays hard, we all should go home safe..


The bats have changed a ton. There's no comparison between a Worth 3DX, which was outlawed then & any of current line of composites. Then when there's work done on these composites. It's far worse now than it wasduring the recertifiction era.

[Rip23]

I pitch also (American Made/Montgomery Ford) and in my opinion, the pitcher's fielding has a lot to do with how much you pitch/play in a given week. When I played for The Diamond Dawgs a few years back, it took me a while to learn reaction time. But when I got it down, I knew I was catching anything that ANYONE hit to me. I can recall many instances where teams were trying to kill me, and I loved every minute of it. They were just giving us outs. Just about everyone hated us, especially the Backstabbers(and luckily I'm still alive). So I My point being, I've played a lot less the past two years, and the same balls I would have snapped off easily, would kill me now. I'm not used to it as much anymore. Its rediculous how much of a difference it makes in how often and at what level u play. And it does only take one shot to ruin or take a man's life.

[herts9]

i believe the same thing happened last year when an "e" team was beating up on an upped team

didn't somebody get slapped in the face during the post-game handshake? :eek: :D :D

[mpYB11]

Some of these guys that play ball are hotheads. when there doing bad at the plate they hit at the pitcher just because they think its the pitchers fault they're not hittin. they say stuff to there teammates like " I'm gonna smoke that pitcher next time". some guys say this but they never do it cause they know it is wrong while others actually do it. I would like to see some of these guys that do that go up there and pitch a couple of inings and let the other team hit middle intentionally.

[YoungGuns]

didn't somebody get slapped in the face during the post-game handshake? :eek: :D :D

huh

[jce1029]

You have to remember with the extra 6 feet means you have to throw it harder which means it comes off of the bat harder, so really don't have any more time. As a pitcher I know the risk, and you do know when you make certain pitches guys are coming back at you, but the problem lies in the guys that puposely turn and take any pitch right back at you, that is BS! You are never going to solve the problem I hate to say, all you can do is to keep trying to be ahead of the curve. A lot of people bitch about Danney and Rumpke but he tries to stay ahead of the curve and within a couple of years ASA usually adopts his rules, kudos and much respect to Danney. Go to 40 cor. bring the legit hr hitters back and the pretenders will actually have to learn how to play the game!

[LBlack14]

1st let me say this, I don't want to see anyone get hurt. I pitched for damn near 20 years in this game against some of the best and you can ask anyone who played with me or knows me that I never once b*tched about someone hittin the middle and I fielded my position well. I don't know Mr. Gruber and hope all's well with him.

It's these forums that stir up more sh*t on the field than anything else. I see it right here.

I'd bet that those of you who call me names are probably not pitchers and probably not man enough to do it. I have and took pride in the job I did. Some of the responses here show that alot of you do have intent when you do hit the middle and getting on base is 2ndary in your mind.

I NEVER complained. I've been hit plenty, but fortunately not in the head. It's not the pitchers or Mr. Gruber that does the whinning nor was I insinuating he wasn't a good player. It's others that B*tch about it and stir up the sh*t. The teams I played on knew that I'd do my job and it was part of the game to hit the middle (Not the pitcher), but accidents do happen.

Wait for it...............

[phatneff]

Exactly........."accidents do happen"!!! So, instead of enabling them to happen with more severe consequences, why don't we limit the severity of these accidents by using a ball that might not do so much damage than one that is that hard??? Is that so hard to ask and to understand????

By the way, I'd be more than happy to pitch for my team if I could throw strikes. Yeah, it's underhand, but there is definitely a skill to being a softball pitcher. Like I said, I play pretty close down at third base, so I feel I can field the middle well enough, but you're damn skippy I would be wearing some sort of protective gear.

Speaking of Skippy.......whatever happened to him????

[rustyd]

Neff heard it from me, I too was playing in that game last night. First, yes Cheese plays for a C team, 3 of the guys play for D teams, and the other guy plays in that league on Mondays only. They were short a team and asked us to fill in, we have a different team each week. Cheese did not take a middle shot at your pitcher. He half swung in an attempt to get a hit between your 1st and 2nd baseman (it was not the 5th inning when this happened it was his 2nd at bat), it turned out to be a 47 hopper that your pitcher fielded, and that Cheese wasn't even running out. Did you pitcher put his ego aside and just make the routine throw to the first base? No, he stared Cheese down and then trotted over to first base, making a big production out of it. Did he really think he wouldn't get a reaction from that? Cheese then said something to the effect that he didn’t really think the pitcher would want to field what he could hit at him, and that was the end of it. There were no shots at your pitcher from us in the game, there was no attempt from anyone on our team to hurt any of your players, and I personally take offense that you seem to think there was. Like you said it is a recreational co-ed league, clearly not something to hurt someone or get hurt over!


i'd just like to add a little bit of clarity to this situation in particular....since i am the pitcher you speak of....first off, what herts9 was referring to in his earlier post was not about "cheese" in the first place...the thing with cheese did happen in the second inning like you said...while what herts9 is talking about did happen in the 5th inning...the thing with cheese was