Managers Pledge - Discussion

[BT44]

[QUOTE=stallings18;51329]I can say this.. Ky Finest won't use them unless the team we are playing are using them.. Why give yourself a disadvantage before the game starts. We purchased 1 Dozen of the Dudley advanced before this happened. I will keep them in the bag for this situation. Any other game we will be using Trump and Worth!!



There are no clauses in what we are trying to do here. No disrespect intended, but you're either on board....or you're not.

[distancetw]

Maybe it's time to go to the 40 cor Majors ball. I hear USSSA is mandating that for next year.

[iplayeball]

guys, what you are doing is great and I am sure Youngie and Frank are reading this and thanking you all....BUT......this is not a solution, its not even a start. All protesting this ball does is give us something else to argue about.....Can all you managers really tell me that if your in the championship against a team using those balls that you wont pull yours out if they hit middle? Its a great gesture and I applaud your efforts, but if we want to do something about it, lets throw some money in the kitty and send a few reps from our area to the USSSA national meetings and do something about it,,,,If the managers really want to stop this nonsense, get in Brian Wegmans Real Skilz challenge and share the bats and balls. Lets force the parks to follow suite and provide balls or NOT PLAY there....How about all the managers step up and start using aluminum bats? That would really be a step in the right direction....but you know what? Noone will use aluminum bats because its like taking a knife to a gun fight.....and so is not using those Dudley's.....its like an adult picking a fighting witha kid.....if the other team is using them, why protest the best ball that is LEGAL. I am glad we, as a softball community are standing together and wanting to fight for this issue....the issue is the bats are just to hot.....or lets enforce the batters box, not allow players to stand way up in the box...lets SHORTEN the box so the pitcher can actually work a batter instead of the pitcher just standing up there all day putting it on a platter for the batter.....the pitcher is the closest guy to the batter and yet we never enforce the batters box rule? Go figure.

I am all for trying to stop this nonsense, lets just not protest a ball that is not really the problem. Thats like banning alcohol because 1 guy gets a DUI.....problem is the drinker, not the drink.

[JHAMP]

I am all for trying to stop this nonsense, lets just not protest a ball that is not really the problem.

So the majority of the upper teams in the city just agreed to not use the Dudley Advanced but you don't think they are a problem? And if the balls aren't a problem, why would we not play at a place that doesn't provide the balls?

After you use a composite bat it breaks down thus making it illegal for play. You don't believe me, ask Wegs. It happened to him. But this probably isn't a problem either because when the bat was bought it was the best LEGAL bat, right?

[ps3gamer101]

guys that means not using them in a late game with a tie score just to get the advantage ... larks great idea love the fact most every team is agreeing

[Wolfeja]

guys, what you are doing is great and I am sure Youngie and Frank are reading this and thanking you all....BUT......this is not a solution, its not even a start. All protesting this ball does is give us something else to argue about.....Can all you managers really tell me that if your in the championship against a team using those balls that you wont pull yours out if they hit middle? Its a great gesture and I applaud your efforts, but if we want to do something about it, lets throw some money in the kitty and send a few reps from our area to the USSSA national meetings and do something about it,,,,If the managers really want to stop this nonsense, get in Brian Wegmans Real Skilz challenge and share the bats and balls. Lets force the parks to follow suite and provide balls or NOT PLAY there....How about all the managers step up and start using aluminum bats? That would really be a step in the right direction....but you know what? Noone will use aluminum bats because its like taking a knife to a gun fight.....and so is not using those Dudley's.....its like an adult picking a fighting witha kid.....if the other team is using them, why protest the best ball that is LEGAL. I am glad we, as a softball community are standing together and wanting to fight for this issue....the issue is the bats are just to hot.....or lets enforce the batters box, not allow players to stand way up in the box...lets SHORTEN the box so the pitcher can actually work a batter instead of the pitcher just standing up there all day putting it on a platter for the batter.....the pitcher is the closest guy to the batter and yet we never enforce the batters box rule? Go figure.

I am all for trying to stop this nonsense, lets just not protest a ball that is not really the problem. Thats like banning alcohol because 1 guy gets a DUI.....problem is the drinker, not the drink.

I agree, banning the ball is not a COMPLETE solution, but it is a start. Glad to see the better teams in the area stepping up to set the example.

[Larks]

this is not a solution, its not even a start.

I am all for trying to stop this nonsense, lets just not protest a ball that is not really the problem. Thats like banning alcohol because 1 guy gets a DUI.....problem is the drinker, not the drink.

You have some valid points but having played in a half dozen tournaments and 5 weeks of leagues against every top team in the area, I feel like I can be an authority on the difference between the Dudley ball and the other balls we are using. They are a lot better, period.

Are the bats too hot? Absolutely.

Look, this is a first step. I will not pull these out period. I'm willing to say that and take my losses as a result.

BTW - I agree 1000% about the batters box - thats another area of stupidity. I watched Wally in two at bats against us this weekend hit balls with his BACK foot past the front edge of the mat. Thats like 4 feet or more in front of the plate. I agree there is no box to judge with but when does common sense come in to play with regard to that rule? UMPIRES AND PARK DIRECTORS - I'M TALKING TO YOU HERE. Maybe its time to invest in some additional chalk. (No offense Wally - you aren't the only guy that will do that from time to time.)

There are lots of areas to look at. But I am encouraged that we as coaches will not wait on some committee that meets in the winter in some hotel somewhere warm....lets take some action now to at least make a small dent. Lets make a statement that the committee actually hears with our action vs. just words.

In my opinion, the Dudley ball this year is too hot for USSSA bats. Its changing the game for the worse much like the U2 did and its increasing the injury factor.

Will you see me protesting? No. The balls are technically legal. Will you hear me making it an issue on here whenever I can? Yep. So far, some pretty reputable coaches are with me.

[BT44]

guys, what you are doing is great and I am sure Youngie and Frank are reading this and thanking you all....BUT......this is not a solution, its not even a start. All protesting this ball does is give us something else to argue about.....Can all you managers really tell me that if your in the championship against a team using those balls that you wont pull yours out if they hit middle? Its a great gesture and I applaud your efforts, but if we want to do something about it, lets throw some money in the kitty and send a few reps from our area to the USSSA national meetings and do something about it,,,,If the managers really want to stop this nonsense, get in Brian Wegmans Real Skilz challenge and share the bats and balls. Lets force the parks to follow suite and provide balls or NOT PLAY there....How about all the managers step up and start using aluminum bats? That would really be a step in the right direction....but you know what? Noone will use aluminum bats because its like taking a knife to a gun fight.....and so is not using those Dudley's.....its like an adult picking a fighting witha kid.....if the other team is using them, why protest the best ball that is LEGAL. I am glad we, as a softball community are standing together and wanting to fight for this issue....the issue is the bats are just to hot.....or lets enforce the batters box, not allow players to stand way up in the box...lets SHORTEN the box so the pitcher can actually work a batter instead of the pitcher just standing up there all day putting it on a platter for the batter.....the pitcher is the closest guy to the batter and yet we never enforce the batters box rule? Go figure.

I am all for trying to stop this nonsense, lets just not protest a ball that is not really the problem. Thats like banning alcohol because 1 guy gets a DUI.....problem is the drinker, not the drink.

I strongly disagree. We have an opportunity to act on a local level, and it has to start somewhere.
We will not be purchasing any of those balls, therefore we will not be using them, at ANYTIME.
The umpire will always tell you " Show me a box" as I heard this weekend.I'll load my Gold Grover into my bag, and use it Thursday night.Personally I have no problem at all with using a single wall.

In this case the "drink" is the problem.There are some really skilled hitters that at times hit the ball to a place that they don't want to.As long as the human element is involved, their are going to be unfortunate situations as this , that arise.All we are trying to do ,is help to reduce that risk.

[insidethepark]

Where is House Rules? We all know they use dudleys

Unfortunately, we did not get to the thread in time to reply to this forum before TCRUISE decided to call our team out. Some of us still have jobs around here, and do not get a chance to post at any time of the day like some of you....

I have spoken to Fred, and he is currently away from his office right now, but he has agreed to put the DUDLEYS away as well. This is something we should have done a while ago, due to the frequency of Home Run's we have hit for outs.

It is unfortunate that it takes an instance, such as this, for us to realize the harm that these balls have caused. Our pitcher has taken a beating himself, but nothing near the magnitude that others have.

So we would appreciate it, if you would keep your "cheap shots" to yourself, since it sounds like there was more than one team using these Dudley's.

I commend all of the manager's for stepping up, and trying to resolve a problem that has occured 1X too many in the last month.

[Larks]

Moving discussion portion here

[insidethepark]

Unfortunately, we did not get to the thread in time to reply to this forum before TCRUISE decided to call our team out. Some of us still have jobs around here, and do not get a chance to post at any time of the day like some of you....

I have spoken to Fred, and he is currently away from his office right now, but he has agreed to put the DUDLEYS away as well. This is something we should have done a while ago, due to the frequency of Home Run's we have hit for outs.

It is unfortunate that it takes an instance, such as this, for us to realize the harm that these balls have caused. Our pitcher has taken a beating himself, but nothing near the magnitude that others have.

So we would appreciate it, if you would keep your "cheap shots" to yourself, since it sounds like there was more than one team using these Dudley's.

I commend all of the manager's for stepping up, and trying to resolve a problem that has occured 1X too many in the last month.

[phatneff]

A quick reply to the the argument that if you're in a late game situation that you would bring out thos balls, or even if the other team is using them the whole game that would bring them out then, too.............................ABSOLUTELY ABSURD!!!

Do you even understand the point of why the ban is happening??? It's not so that we can win or lose games. It's to promote SAFETY on the ball fields!! Anyone who thinks that they can use that ball "in certain circumstances" needs to pull their heads out of their asses and smell the coffee, and not the sh.t up your ass!

Just because another team is doing it doesn't make it right for you to do it. Yes, technically, it is a legal ball, but MAN UP and SUCK IT UP and take a loss if you have to instead of intending to hurt someone or win a measily ball game. I hope you would feel better after a loss when you didn't seriously hurt someone rather than winning the game and making someone disabled.

Think about it.

[iplayeball]

Brett, and the cincy softball guys that disagree with me......I agree with what you are doing, I just really dont think it will get followed to a T like we want. If we are not using them and another team blows my pitcher up with those balls or pulls them out in the bottom of top of the 7th to hit a HR to go up a run when a $1000 is on the line, I would have to think my coach would throw 1 in with the bases loaded if a homerun was still on the table. I am just saying if we want to stop this nonsense, lets put our focus on another part of the problem, or lets do both.....I am all for helping out with this issue. I have played this game for 15 years, I have been thru injuries, surgeries, family issues and everything in between so I know all about this ball and everything else that is making softball not so fun. So to Brett, yes I have hit this ball, and I know how dangerous this ball is, I have had several hit passed my face as well....matter of fact, the spitz seed guy hit one past me and it was a Dudley that they found in the weeds from another team, but I think the bigger issue is making the batters box smaller. Make batters hit an inside pitch instead of letting the battter take an inside pitch and step out of the box and hit it up the cat....that is where the real problem is........Protest the Dudley and next year we will have another company making the same ball with a different name.......And to Larks and teh cincy softball guys....this is your board, you can use this board as a media outlet to inform us about this kind of stuff....Lets use this board and advertise what you are doing here...advertise it on the front page....post it everywhere. Along with the ball, lets protest everything we can to make it safe for a pitcher to pitch without shelling out a hundy on protective equipment..I just spent $70 today on a mask.

[stallings18]

I am saying its all great about what the intentions are here.. But if your playing a team that is using them.. Oviously they don't care about your health,saftey, or well being.. Why wouldn't you use them.. You know there are legal, You can't protest a New ball, Teams want an advantage and will pay to have the advantage.
What I am saying and I'm speaking for myself, Not the team I am playing on. But we have had this discussion. If we play a team that wants to play with these balls after seeing this and knowing what everyone knows about these balls.. We are going to use them also.

I am sure being completely honest now.. EAP, PRI and J-Tap or any other top teams.. If your playing in a tournament and the other team oviously not a local team " because most of us have said they wouldn't use them" are using these balls and are beating you in a NIT or CASH tourney.. You aren't going to use the balls that make the playing level even? I just don't see that happening.. Taking a lost AND fielding the balls that you are provided to pitch with, Why you wouldn't or say you wouldn't throw your balls in also? YOUR ALREADY FIELDING THEM...WHY NOT MAKE THEM REALIZE WHAT THEY ARE DOING ALSO???

[iplayeball]

A quick reply to the the argument that if you're in a late game situation that you would bring out thos balls, or even if the other team is using them the whole game that would bring them out then, too.............................ABSOLUTELY ABSURD!!!

Do you even understand the point of why the ban is happening??? It's not so that we can win or lose games. It's to promote SAFETY on the ball fields!! Anyone who thinks that they can use that ball "in certain circumstances" needs to pull their heads out of their asses and smell the coffee, and not the sh.t up your ass!

Just because another team is doing it doesn't make it right for you to do it. Yes, technically, it is a legal ball, but MAN UP and SUCK IT UP and take a loss if you have to instead of intending to hurt someone or win a measily ball game. I hope you would feel better after a loss when you didn't seriously hurt someone rather than winning the game and making someone disabled.

Think about it.



Hey pal....this is a discussion about player safety, why dog on me for an opinion of mine....my opinion might not be the most popular but I promise you this, I will do everything in my power to promote player safety......I want to do MORE than jsut protest a ball........I agree with what you guys are doing, I am just saying I dont think it will get followed like we want....And I also think if your team, any team, is getting beat by those balls....someone will always yell out "PUT THE CHEATER BALLS AWAY AND PLAY US" or "THATS THE ONLY WAY YOU WILL EVER BEAT US" comments like that are bound to happen because not every team is going to protest the balls. I just think if your going to protest a hot ball that is perfectly legal, why not protest a hot bat that is pefectly legal? What bat do you swing Neff?

[KOSTOFF2]

Hey pal....this is a discussion about player safety, why dog on me for an opinion of mine....my opinion might not be the most popular but I promise you this, I will do everything in my power to promote player safety......I want to do MORE than jsut protest a ball........I agree with what you guys are doing, I am just saying I dont think it will get followed like we want....And I also think if your team, any team, is getting beat by those balls....someone will always yell out "PUT THE CHEATER BALLS AWAY AND PLAY US" or "THATS THE ONLY WAY YOU WILL EVER BEAT US" comments like that are bound to happen because not every team is going to protest the balls. I just think if your going to protest a hot ball that is perfectly legal, why not protest a hot bat that is pefectly legal? What bat do you swing Neff?

Well I sure hope the local teams step up and put these away, at least until the park owners step up and ban these.

We as a team just all chipped in and bought our pitcher a helmet today. I think he will be getting shin guards as well.

[JHAMP]

I am sure being completely honest now.. EAP, PRI and J-Tap or any other top teams.. If your playing in a tournament and the other team oviously not a local team " because most of us have said they wouldn't use them" are using these balls and are beating you in a NIT or CASH tourney.. You aren't going to use the balls that make the playing level even? I just don't see that happening.. Taking a lost AND fielding the balls that you are provided to pitch with, Why you wouldn't or say you wouldn't throw your balls in also? YOUR ALREADY FIELDING THEM...WHY NOT MAKE THEM REALIZE WHAT THEY ARE DOING ALSO???

If you want to use them because the other team is, go ahead if it makes you feel better. But don't come on here an challenge the integrity of men that said they will not use them. I don't doubt that anyone on EAP, JTAPS, House Rules, or any other mentioned team would have a problem hitting a HR w/o the Dudley ball or getting a base hit w/o the Dudley ball. If Cowboy says he isn't going to use them I have no doubt they will not use them. And that goes for everyone else who is saying, "I don't care what everyone else is using, we will not use them."

[Tiger Fitness]

Well I sure hope the local teams step up and put these away, at least until the park owners step up and ban these.

We as a team just all chipped in and bought our pitcher a helmet today. I think he will be getting shin guards as well.


Talked to Bill Chard and Wessel Parks have banned the Dudley Thunder Advanced balls at their parks. That's a good start.

[Wolfeja]

Talked to Bill Chard and Wessel Parks have banned the Dudley Thunder Advanced balls at their parks. That's a good start.

Great Start...what about the others???

[BT44]

I am saying its all great about what the intentions are here.. But if your playing a team that is using them.. Oviously they don't care about your health,saftey, or well being.. Why wouldn't you use them.. You know there are legal, You can't protest a New ball, Teams want an advantage and will pay to have the advantage.
What I am saying and I'm speaking for myself, Not the team I am playing on. But we have had this discussion. If we play a team that wants to play with these balls after seeing this and knowing what everyone knows about these balls.. We are going to use them also.

I am sure being completely honest now.. EAP, PRI and J-Tap or any other top teams.. If your playing in a tournament and the other team oviously not a local team " because most of us have said they wouldn't use them" are using these balls and are beating you in a NIT or CASH tourney.. You aren't going to use the balls that make the playing level even? I just don't see that happening.. Taking a lost AND fielding the balls that you are provided to pitch with, Why you wouldn't or say you wouldn't throw your balls in also? YOUR ALREADY FIELDING THEM...WHY NOT MAKE THEM REALIZE WHAT THEY ARE DOING ALSO???

Nobody here is saying "protest a ball". We cannot control what others do, only what we do, so that's the stand we are taking.Not to use the Dudley's.

You don't know me well enough to make that assumption about what I will do "with the game on the line". I'll say it again "WE"RE NOT GOING TO USE THEM". I can't make it any clearer than that.I'll take a loss anyday doing the RIGHT thing, as opposed to winning at all cost.I'd like to think I've spent my time playing doing things the right way, and I'll continue to do it, or I'll just stop playing.

[KOSTOFF2]

Talked to Bill Chard and Wessel Parks have banned the Dudley Thunder Advanced balls at their parks. That's a good start.

Sweet! Eggleston and Riverstar have stepped it up!

[JHAMP]

Talked to Bill Chard and Wessel Parks have banned the Dudley Thunder Advanced balls at their parks. That's a good start.

But they aren't a problem Vordo..lol

And to the guy talking about teams complaining about cheater balls and whatknot. We've never used the Advanced. We have played plenty of team that have. Some games we've won. Some we've lost. Not once have be b*tched or complained about the other team having an unfair advantage. It's our option to buy the balls if we wanted to. And for the record Neff swings a Miken 585. Far from the hottest bat out there.

[stallings18]

I think from local teams we won't see these balls used.. thats great and a posititive move, Way to stand up as a Softball Community!! Outside of Cincinnati though if your team travels or when teams from Louisville, Lexington, Dayton, West Virginia or where ever come to play in out NIT'S we are going to see these balls until the parks band them.. Yeah you don't want to see anyone getting hurt but YOUR going to be the one getting hurt FIELDING these. They won't care if they are dangerous, your not using them and they don't have to field them.. I'd never throw one in if we were losing and we needed 1 run.. If I am going to use one, It will be the whole game or until they quit using that ball.. I will try my hardest to talk to a team about these balls and not use them. Why put your own players saftey on the line if a team refuses to use a different ball?

[stallings18]

If you want to use them because the other team is, go ahead if it makes you feel better. But don't come on here an challenge the integrity of men that said they will not use them. I don't doubt that anyone on EAP, JTAPS, House Rules, or any other mentioned team would have a problem hitting a HR w/o the Dudley ball or getting a base hit w/o the Dudley ball. If Cowboy says he isn't going to use them I have no doubt they will not use them. And that goes for everyone else who is saying, "I don't care what everyone else is using, we will not use them."

HAMP I am not questioning anyones integrity or honestly I am simply asking a question in this situation what is going to happen.. You keep making things personal.. I simple asked would it change anything???

[Wolfeja]

I think from local teams we won't see these balls used.. thats great and a posititive move, Way to stand up as a Softball Community!! Outside of Cincinnati though if your team travels or when teams from Louisville, Lexington, Dayton, West Virginia or where ever come to play in out NIT'S we are going to see these balls until the parks band them.. Yeah you don't want to see anyone getting hurt but YOUR going to be the one getting hurt FIELDING these. They won't care if they are dangerous, your not using them and they don't have to field them.. I'd never throw one in if we were losing and we needed 1 run.. If I am going to use one, It will be the whole game or until they quit using that ball.. I will try my hardest to talk to a team about these balls and not use them. Why put your own players saftey on the line if a team refuses to use a different ball?


Chris...Pretty safe bet we won't be seeing these in any parks around here again. Already banned at Riverstar and the Egg. Others are sure to follow...

This isn't about everyone else, it's about what you are going to do. Whay would a D/E team use these rockets anyway? HR's are outs!!!

[stallings18]

Nobody here is saying "protest a ball". We cannot control what others do, only what we do, so that's the stand we are taking.Not to use the Dudley's.

You don't know me well enough to make that assumption about what I will do "with the game on the line". I'll say it again "WE"RE NOT GOING TO USE THEM". I can't make it any clearer than that.I'll take a loss anyday doing the RIGHT thing, as opposed to winning at all cost.I'd like to think I've spent my time playing doing things the right way, and I'll continue to do it, or I'll just stop playing.

I understand that.. I also understand at most parks they are legal.. We couldn't protest them. I am glad WESSEL PARKS are taking a stand!! MAJOR MAJOR PROPS.. Hopefully the rest of the parks in the nation follow suit!!

[stallings18]

Like I said Ky Finest won't be using them in any tourney where they aren't being used!!.. I just don't want to Field them either!! You know what I am saying!!

[bcos17]

It's really sad to see grown men more concerned with a "competitive disadvantage" in a recreational sport than getting up and going to work on Monday.

I love the game as much as everybody and want to win more than anybody.... but I'd much rather be able to "watch" my kids grow "with both eyes".

[Wolfeja]

Like I said Ky Finest won't be using them in any tourney where they aren't being used!!.. I just don't want to Field them either!! You know what I am saying!!

How about...KY Finest won't be using them...period???

[stallings18]

Your Right.. Growing old and watching your kids and family grow is more important than anything in life.. Being able to go home and make it to work on Monday after a Tournament weekend is also important..

This sports cost money.. Your paying 275.00 a NIT and 40.00-60.00 a Dozen balls.. Yeah you don't want to pay that much money just to lose it. This is a competitive sport. Teams do what they can to get a Legal Competitive Advantage.I totally totally agree these balls are Dangerous.. I don't want to use them at all.. Point being I just sold our dozen on Softball Fans to a guy in Michigan.. We are going to run into them.. I just hope everyone realizes this outside of cincinnati! We will be playing them sometime!

[stallings18]

Looks like Ky Finest won't be using them period!!Just Sold them!! Hope we don't have to field them either!!

[BT44]

Looks like Ky Finest won't be using them period!!Just Sold them!! Hope we don't have to field them either!!

There you go! It took us all day, but.....you came around!!!!

[bcos17]

Your Right.. Growing old and watching your kids and family grow is more important than anything in life.. Being able to go home and make it to work on Monday after a Tournament weekend is also important..

This sports cost money.. Your paying 275.00 a NIT and 40.00-60.00 a Dozen balls.. Yeah you don't want to pay that much money just to lose it. This is a competitive sport. Teams do what they can to get a Legal Competitive Advantage.I totally totally agree these balls are Dangerous.. I don't want to use them at all.. Point being I just sold our dozen on Softball Fans to a guy in Michigan.. We are going to run into them.. I just hope everyone realizes this outside of cincinnati! We will be playing them sometime!

Believe me, we all understand this... but back to the point of what's more important... We are trying to do something about this.

Hell, Riverstar and Eggleston already banned these within a matter of hours... I can guarantee you that Expressway and Pastime will follow (though they supply balls)... guess where C Nationals are this year...

The point is... let's worry about our house and what we can do to make a splash, just like the film "Gift it Forward"... We can only hope that park managers and other area directors will take notice... and believe me, they will.

I'd be willing to bet every nickel of my casino cash that these will be banned in the great lakes region by the time state roles around. I'd also be willing to bet that Mark L will be going up the flag pole with this and probably will be including it in a future article...

[stallings18]

I was the 1st to say these balls were dangerous.. Everyone told me to quit your whinning and play ball.. I just hope we dont have to play against someone who uses them.. It really is a disadvantage and a saftey issue!! I am seriously glad wessel took the stand and banned them!

[stallings18]

Believe me, we all understand this... but back to the point of what's more important... We are trying to do something about this.

Hell, Riverstar and Eggleston already banned these within a matter of hours... I can guarantee you that Expressway and Pastime will follow (though they supply balls)... guess where C Nationals are this year...

The point is... let's worry about our house and what we can do to make a splash, just like the film "Gift it Forward"... We can only hope that park managers and other area directors will take notice... and believe me, they will.

I'd be willing to bet every nickel of my casino cash that these will be banned in the great lakes region by the time state roles around. I'd also be willing to bet that Mark L will be going up the flag pole with this and probably will be including it in a future article...


I hope so.. For the first time I will be looking forward to read one of his articles!!

[wells21]

I totally agree with what is being done about the balls! I also love the attitude of lets worry about our house and the people who we have to compete against in 90% of our tournys. I just wonder why this "worry about ourselves and let the nation catch up to us" approach is not taken with classifications and the hated list?????? Seems like it should go hand and hand, but because of some need to "compete on a national level" we all want load up teams and play lower level softball. JMO

[Knowitall]

You dont have to worry about Expressway. They provide the balls and they are all Worth 44/375. The cost of thier tournaments and leagues are the same as other parks and they NEVER stopped providing the balls. Every park in this city could do the same. I always here people b!tch about the back up balls but, this would help the situation. I believe Pastime provides balls for tournaments as well. Maybe all the parks should jump on board and use the same ball at every venue.

[pigpen]

Just out of curiousity. What will we be hitting in the Cincy Major now that they have stepped up an banned the dudley from Riverstar and Eggleston. I guess we will see next month? The dudley is the ball used in conference play. Trust me, it may have a "major" stamp on it but when they are suppose to have new balls all the time. These things are hard as rocks. By the way, we was hitting some that said "major" on them an someone called me out on it(thinking I was cheating). After explaining the "major" ball is a lower core then the "elite" it was OK.

[phatneff]

Hey pal....this is a discussion about player safety, why dog on me for an opinion of mine....my opinion might not be the most popular but I promise you this, I will do everything in my power to promote player safety......I want to do MORE than jsut protest a ball........I agree with what you guys are doing, I am just saying I dont think it will get followed like we want....And I also think if your team, any team, is getting beat by those balls....someone will always yell out "PUT THE CHEATER BALLS AWAY AND PLAY US" or "THATS THE ONLY WAY YOU WILL EVER BEAT US" comments like that are bound to happen because not every team is going to protest the balls. I just think if your going to protest a hot ball that is perfectly legal, why not protest a hot bat that is pefectly legal? What bat do you swing Neff?

LOL!! I swing a Miken Maniac 585 that is 3 years old. What do you have to say about that bat?

I'm not criticizing your opinion, I'm criticizing the logic behind it.

[Larks]

You dont have to worry about Expressway. They provide the balls and they are all Worth 44/375. The cost of thier tournaments and leagues are the same as other parks and they NEVER stopped providing the balls. Every park in this city could do the same. I always here people b!tch about the back up balls but, this would help the situation. I believe Pastime provides balls for tournaments as well. Maybe all the parks should jump on board and use the same ball at every venue.

I agree to a point - this is a fine line. The local parks have in the past been guilty of using balls way too long to the point you could barely tell what you are hitting. There is a point where you give the visiting team an advantage because they get a new ball and the home teams ends up with a sock. Thats why I have always been in favor of teams hitting their own.

If we can get the parks to agree to provide two new balls for each game, allowing both teams to start their offensive side of the game with a new ball, I'd be ok with the parks providing them from there, especially playing C (2 HR)

I don't need a ball to the level of a dudley but being able to still read the writing on the ball should at least be the minimum.

[Larks]

Just out of curiosity. What will we be hitting in the Cincy Major now that they have stepped up an banned the dudley from Riverstar and Eggleston.

That is an excellent question.

[Knowitall]

Some of the back up balls are terrible. Maybe the parks could decide on a single ball. This would be the only ball allowed in the city. Out of town teams would have to play by this rule when playing down here. This would make the playing field level everywhere we play.

[eigz12]

Believe me, we all understand this... but back to the point of what's more important... We are trying to do something about this.

Hell, Riverstar and Eggleston already banned these within a matter of hours... I can guarantee you that Expressway and Pastime will follow (though they supply balls)... guess where C Nationals are this year...

The point is... let's worry about our house and what we can do to make a splash, just like the film "Gift it Forward"... We can only hope that park managers and other area directors will take notice... and believe me, they will.

I'd be willing to bet every nickel of my casino cash that these will be banned in the great lakes region by the time state roles around. I'd also be willing to bet that Mark L will be going up the flag pole with this and probably will be including it in a future article...

you got that on your ipod too?

[Tiger Fitness]

Just out of curiousity. What will we be hitting in the Cincy Major now that they have stepped up an banned the dudley from Riverstar and Eggleston. I guess we will see next month? The dudley is the ball used in conference play. Trust me, it may have a "major" stamp on it but when they are suppose to have new balls all the time. These things are hard as rocks. By the way, we was hitting some that said "major" on them an someone called me out on it(thinking I was cheating). After explaining the "major" ball is a lower core then the "elite" it was OK.

I think they just banned the Thunder Advanced Elite stamped. Not the Major ball which I think is the Heat.

[Larks]

I think they just banned the Thunder Advanced Elite stamped. Not the Major ball which is a lower compression.


My team will not use these.

[iplayeball]

LOL!! I swing a Miken Maniac 585 that is 3 years old. What do you have to say about that bat?

I'm not criticizing your opinion, I'm criticizing the logic behind it.

Phatneff....taht is so odd you brought that up......I have no idea who you are but I will show up and let you swing my 585, the same 585 that I cannot even swing in an ASA tourny without hearing every team there complain about. It has about 5000 swings on it and is jsut as hot as my OG freaks. Point being, IMO, that is one of the hottest bats on the market for those that stuck with them throu there dead period. Thats what I have to say about that.......You know as well as I do that ANY bat, esprcially Mikens, get hotter than fire after a few thousand swings. Point is that we should start with the bats, if we really want to take a stand, lets protest these bats and everyone go back to their trusty EST's.

I thnk the logic behind my opinion might not be the most popular but i do think it will help player safety in the quickest and best way possible.....Just read a few post back when the poster said he was telling everyone how hot these balls were and everyone thought he was whinning, they thought his logic was flawed.......I am not saying that protesting these balls are wrong, I am just sayin gif we are gonna do this, lets jump in feet first and go all the way.....or we can get back on here when someone gets killed and protest the bats and batters box, I just hope its not me that gets killed....or Trevor Barth, or Cheese, or TJ, or other friends of mine.

[phatneff]

Phatneff....taht is so odd you brought that up......I have no idea who you are but I will show up and let you swing my 585, the same 585 that I cannot even swing in an ASA tourny without hearing every team there complain about. It has about 5000 swings on it and is jsut as hot as my OG freaks. Point being, IMO, that is one of the hottest bats on the market for those that stuck with them throu there dead period. Thats what I have to say about that.......You know as well as I do that ANY bat, esprcially Mikens, get hotter than fire after a few thousand swings.


Yep, you're right, that bat is very hot! I thought you were implying that it was shaved. However, as a matter of fact, I got a new one (that I haven't picked up yet) because my current one now has a crack in it. So, yes, I will continue to hit a 585 simply because I like the feel of it. Always have. For ASA, I have a Miken NRG. Just like the 585, you don't see an ASA NRG out there much, do you? Also, if you recall, last year I even put up a survey asking which bat I should get......A Freak 98 or an NRG. It came out pretty even, if I recall, but I went with the NRG because it felt better than the 98. I don't like the Eastons and I probably will never swing one, unless there is one that feels good to swing. I choose a bat not because of what the mainstream goes with and how hot they get, but rather because of how it feels.

[Cowboy]

Point is that we should start with the bats, if we really want to take a stand, lets protest these bats and everyone go back to their trusty EST's.

I'll go you one better. Back to the Blue TPS!!!

[JHAMP]

the same 585 that I cannot even swing in an ASA tourny without hearing every team there complain about.

I hope every team would complain about it considering it's not legal in ASA!

[renegades26]

after last weekend while playing t.b.i. and booker their catcher hitting a ball through the infeild that i never saw go by me and both my second baseman nor my middle infeilder say they never saw a ball go through the infeild so fast and hard i agree 100% with this i cannot speak for our coach but will be begging him to get on board....get well soon frank and to youngie we have not forgot about you here man i cannot imagine what you are going through i feel terrible for you too i know this was an accident and it is terrible for everyone involved...best wishes from all of the "renegades" to you both!! chuck

[Wessel Sports]

Just out of curiousity. What will we be hitting in the Cincy Major now that they have stepped up an banned the dudley from Riverstar and Eggleston. I guess we will see next month? The dudley is the ball used in conference play. Trust me, it may have a "major" stamp on it but when they are suppose to have new balls all the time. These things are hard as rocks. By the way, we was hitting some that said "major" on them an someone called me out on it(thinking I was cheating). After explaining the "major" ball is a lower core then the "elite" it was OK.


The Dudley Advanced is not allowed! The Dudley ball that is allowed will be the same one they use in all of the Conference Tournaments around the country. It is the Dudley WS12RF40Y, which is the 40 core / 300 compression ball. The same ball we have used in the Major NIT the last couple of seasons.

[Wolfeja]

Phatneff....taht is so odd you brought that up......I have no idea who you are but I will show up and let you swing my 585, the same 585 that I cannot even swing in an ASA tourny without hearing every team there complain about. It has about 5000 swings on it and is jsut as hot as my OG freaks. Point being, IMO, that is one of the hottest bats on the market for those that stuck with them throu there dead period. Thats what I have to say about that.......You know as well as I do that ANY bat, esprcially Mikens, get hotter than fire after a few thousand swings. Point is that we should start with the bats, if we really want to take a stand, lets protest these bats and everyone go back to their trusty EST's.

I thnk the logic behind my opinion might not be the most popular but i do think it will help player safety in the quickest and best way possible.....Just read a few post back when the poster said he was telling everyone how hot these balls were and everyone thought he was whinning, they thought his logic was flawed.......I am not saying that protesting these balls are wrong, I am just sayin gif we are gonna do this, lets jump in feet first and go all the way.....or we can get back on here when someone gets killed and protest the bats and batters box, I just hope its not me that gets killed....or Trevor Barth, or Cheese, or TJ, or other friends of mine.


First of all...the 585 isn't legal in ASA, just the 484 that's why I bought it...for the Metro and anyother ASA tournament we get into.

Secondly...how in the heck do you get 5000 swings out of any Miken. I used my 484 last year and the first couple months of this year and had to send it back because it cracked. I bet it BARELY 1000 swings on it!!!

Lastly...mine was hot as hell and I hated sending it back for an NRG, but we will have to see what it hits like since I have a total of 3 swing on it now...

[phatneff]

Come to think of it, mine was already a return because it has the "W" stamped in the endcap! I remember getting it early last season, but that was before I knew that we were going to play ASA the majority of the year. So, when I was umping CSL softball leagues, I would let some of those teams that didn't have a bat use it to help break it in. Given, some of those people using the bat were girls who never played before. But, it still allows it to get broken it more quickly than not using it at all.

I won't give away another thing that helps me hit hard with that bat because if I did, the pitchers wouldn't pitch it that way to me!!!

[ddeck noonans27]

i hope that Frank recovers fully from his injury, our daughters play soccer together. best wishes and God speed. I know that people invest alot of money into buying these $300-$350 bats and playing with fresh balls. this may sound stupid to some of you, but why not a Net for the pitcher. a persons reaction time is only so fast. just an idea! cause i know that the majority of us have families. I'm not a middle hitter unless i go with the pitch. its nothing about hitting the middle i'm just going where it is pitched and crap happens then!

[phatneff]

i hope that Frank recovers fully from his injury, our daughters play soccer together. best wishes and God speed. I know that people invest alot of money into buying these $300-$350 bats and playing with fresh balls. this may sound stupid to some of you, but why not a Net for the pitcher. a persons reaction time is only so fast. just an idea! cause i know that the majority of us have families. I'm not a middle hitter unless i go with the pitch. its nothing about hitting the middle i'm just going where it is pitched and crap happens then!

I understand the point about the net, but I don't think that will ever happen because it takes away from the actual game. I would think that before a net is used for the pitcher, we would go back to older bats or even use the 16" softball like they do in Chicago, without gloves.

[bcos17]

Just out of curiousity. What will we be hitting in the Cincy Major now that they have stepped up an banned the dudley from Riverstar and Eggleston. I guess we will see next month? The dudley is the ball used in conference play. Trust me, it may have a "major" stamp on it but when they are suppose to have new balls all the time. These things are hard as rocks. By the way, we was hitting some that said "major" on them an someone called me out on it(thinking I was cheating). After explaining the "major" ball is a lower core then the "elite" it was OK.


Who cares. It's freaking underhand softball!! Hit it on the screws and the lower comp will be just fine.

Foulks I figured you would be the first to step up and back this ban. If any team in the city responds to a challenge it's you guys.... you would hit socks and not care.

[bcos17]

you got that on your ipod too?

No, but I am married with kids... so I had to oblige if you know what I mean. The docked ipod only has 300, anchor man and semi pro... and just for that I will turn your screen off.

[iplayeball]

Yep, you're right, that bat is very hot! I thought you were implying that it was shaved. However, as a matter of fact, I got a new one (that I haven't picked up yet) because my current one now has a crack in it. So, yes, I will continue to hit a 585 simply because I like the feel of it. Always have. For ASA, I have a Miken NRG. Just like the 585, you don't see an ASA NRG out there much, do you? Also, if you recall, last year I even put up a survey asking which bat I should get......A Freak 98 or an NRG. It came out pretty even, if I recall, but I went with the NRG because it felt better than the 98. I don't like the Eastons and I probably will never swing one, unless there is one that feels good to swing. I choose a bat not because of what the mainstream goes with and how hot they get, but rather because of how it feels.


I was not implying that it was shaved at all....sorry for the confusion. I just know from seeing Franks situation first hand, I dont ever want to feel liek that again.....I had a knot in my gut for 3 innings after that and we were on the other diamond. Something needs to be done and protesting theses balls are a good step but in no way is gonna change the outcome of batters hitting the middle with hot sticks. A normal legal bat, just as legal as this dudley ball, is gonna do more damage than 1 ball that can only be used in a hit your own ball tourny.
How many of you refused to use the ultr or ultra 2 when it was legal? I know most of us went out of our way to go buy one instead of making a stand.
I still say the best change to make and the easiest without taking our equipment away is to shrink the batters box. its not that hard and takes little to no effort by the parks and associations. If you think its not a great idea, next time you go to batting practice, make yourself a SMALL box and try to stan din there and hit the PITCHERS pitch....its not that easy and it WILL protect the pitcher wayyyyyyyyy more than protesting a ball. I would glady throw in some money to help send a rep from this area to the national meetings for USSSA and try to get this point across to them.
The other idea I am in love with i sthe real Skilz challenge from wegs....that really helps level the players somewhat.

[iplayeball]

Who cares. It's freaking underhand softball!! Hit it on the screws and the lower comp will be just fine.

Foulks I figured you would be the first to step up and back this ban. If any team in the city responds to a challenge it's you guys.... you would hit socks and not care.


maybe he has 15 dozen in the garage and now does not want to use them for BP.....maybe he is gonna tell his players to not hit the middle....if anyone has control of his team, its this man....if he says stay out of the middle, his guys will stay out of the middle. You dont have to protest a ball to protect your pitcher. Mike will also not stand for an altered bat, if you swing an altered bat you might as well find another team....Mike controls his teams actions more than any coach out there.

[slamit93]

guess where C Nationals are this year...

can they actually ban a ball that is certified by utrip for nationals? I mean... during the national tourney?

[AROD13]

The teams I have been playing on in Cincy have been using these balls Dudley Thunder Advance for 3 years now, and now they are too hot? These balls just stay hard for a longer period of time and don't go to mush after the first inning. All you guys over reacting. The ASA balls in these are just as good.

[Larks]

The teams I have been playing on in Cincy have been using these balls Dudley Thunder Advance for 3 years now, and now they are too hot? These balls just stay hard for a longer period of time and don't go to mush after the first inning. All you guys over reacting. The ASA balls in these are just as good.


Uh....no

Weve been using worths for the last two years minimum.

[AROD13]

Uh....no

Weve been using worths for the last two years minimum.

The Last 3 years for the Bash for Cash we have used these very balls (although they were ASA, they are the same ball. They do stay harder longer) and it didn't seem to be a problem then. And those are some cold days.
I guess nobody thought about how good those balls were then cause it was soo cold out and all the balls seemed hard. I have all the respect in the world for Frank but maybe this one time it didn't matter what kinda ball or bat it was, maybe he just wasn't ready and off balance for a shot like this. The best do sometimes relax on certain pitches and maybe this was one of those pitches. Youngie is known to hit the ball backside a lot and this time he just missed it and it went middle and Frank wasn't ready for it cause it wasn't normally a pitch that he pitches for someone to hit the middle.

On another note, if you think the Dudley Advance are the only balls that stay hot, your dead wrong. Wait till everyone now switches to the Trump ball. Then what we gonna ban all the Trump balls next.

Bottom line like someone else has said. Keep the batters in the box, and quit making the pitchers serve love all the time. Let them pitch the flat pitch sometimes and give some freaking corners once in a while.

[Fourteen4Good]

The teams I have been playing on in Cincy have been using these balls Dudley Thunder Advance for 3 years now, and now they are too hot? These balls just stay hard for a longer period of time and don't go to mush after the first inning. All you guys over reacting. The ASA balls in these are just as good.

I have played at nearly every level over the past few years and I have never seen a team use these balls until this season. If you have been hitting them for years, then you must have had a pretty good secret going because the craze didn't seem to really catch on until a month or two back. They may not be as hard, but they come off the bat as well as any .47 core ball that I have ever hit. For the record, Frank's accident is not the only reason that some of the parks are banning these balls. I know that Bill Chard has been talking about it for a while now because of all of the complaints and because of the fact that they do not sell them at the local ballparks.

[RB27]

I have played at nearly every level over the past few years and I have never seen a team use these balls until this season. If you have been hitting them for years, then you must have had a pretty good secret going because the craze didn't seem to really catch on until a month or two back. They may not be as hard, but they come off the bat as well as any .47 core ball that I have ever hit. For the record, Frank's accident is not the only reason that some of the parks are banning these balls. I know that Bill Chard has been talking about it for a while now because of all of the complaints and because of the fact that they do not sell them at the local ballparks.

I know when I was on TPE 3 years ago in the Bash we also used these balls. And at first you feel the soft cover you think these balls are junk. But once you hit them we were like WoW. They are by far the best ball you can buy, but I will agree w/who ever wrote about the Trump ball, they are pretty good also.
Any Update on Frank?

[Cowboy]

Any Update on Frank?

Roger;

Got word from both Frank and Terry Walton, that he went home Sunday night. he has 5 fractures around the eye and a bruised retina. Surgery is still possible. Vision is blurry but, returning. And not suprisingly, he wants to get back on the field as soon as possible.

[iplayeball]

Glad to hear about frank......yes, teams have been hitting these balls for about 2-3 years....I promise you that, I dont know when teams starting complaining but these balls have been around awhile....its the same as when the ultra came out....it wasnt a big deal until every team owned one...now with the ball, its not a big deal until every team buys them. I know my teams have swung them for 2 years.....and trust me on this, Trump and Evil sports have balls that are just as good if not better.....and wait until worth comes out with their new ball in July, its supposed to stay hard for 2 games. (that didn't sound right, did it?) Bottom line is this, protest a ball and 2 other balls will show up hotter and harder than ever. Protest the batters box and noone can alter it. I just cant understand why noone is jumping all over the batters box rule? It is hands down the easiest thing to fix and probably makes for the safest enviroment for the pitcher.

[Larks]

I just cant understand why no one is jumping all over the batters box rule? It is hands down the easiest thing to fix and probably makes for the safest environment for the pitcher.

I'll give you this point. Its going to take the parks and the umpires to do something about this. 1 - lay a box or how about just a line in front of home plate? 2 - umps enforce it.

[Cowboy]

We pointed it out to the "umpires" several times Sunday with no results!!!!

[BT44]

Glad to hear about frank......yes, teams have been hitting these balls for about 2-3 years....I promise you that, I dont know when teams starting complaining but these balls have been around awhile....its the same as when the ultra came out....it wasnt a big deal until every team owned one...now with the ball, its not a big deal until every team buys them. I know my teams have swung them for 2 years.....and trust me on this, Trump and Evil sports have balls that are just as good if not better.....and wait until worth comes out with their new ball in July, its supposed to stay hard for 2 games. (that didn't sound right, did it?) Bottom line is this, protest a ball and 2 other balls will show up hotter and harder than ever. Protest the batters box and noone can alter it. I just cant understand why noone is jumping all over the batters box rule? It is hands down the easiest thing to fix and probably makes for the safest enviroment for the pitcher.

I don't recall seeing this ball until this year, although it may have been used for the Bash. That would be the exception.I didn't play much last year, but I do know that the local parks HAD been in agreement on using only the Worth Balls for quite some time. I would think this discussion would have taken place LONG before now had these balls been used regularly.
The batters box is hard to enforce unless they actually chalk one in, or figure out a way to make some kind of permanent marking. By the second or third inning it would be gone anyway, therefore the ball would be the easiest thing to control at this point.I do agree I would like to see this enforced as well, let's see what we can get done.

[pigpen]

Lets all step back an re-read the original post.

June, 2008

My team will not use the Dudley ball for the balance of 2008. We will use Worth, Spirits or whatever the park provides.

Signed:
__________________
Larks Blog Click Here

Before calling me or my team out please read everything not just a few sentences here and there throughout the whole thread. The original post was Dudley Ball! Someone comes back and says the parks banned the dudley Ball. Until Wessell clearified the Advance ball only being banned. My question was what ball are they going to use? I presume some one had a second thought or someone was given wrong information. Which goes back to over reacting before all the information was available. Thanks Bill (I presume) for clearifing which Dudly ball will be used for the conference. Now with Bill stating the ball being used for Conference how many teams are banning it due to the original post? Sounds silly but now we got the whatever the park provides part which is the Dudley Ball.

My opinion is this: The advanced ball with certain types of bats would have to be above the allowances to be certified for the game. But the ball or bat tested individually are within the certifications of the game. Im not sure of the model of bat that was used during the accident. But I was told a Synergy CNT one-piece? Is this the same bat used in other similar situtions? There is a reason these bats are going for the prices i have seen from $350-$600. Where is the thread to ban the Easton scx22? Do we have a pattern with this certain bat? Not by any means saying something was wrong with the bat used this weekend, But from my understanding this is one of the most sought after bats not only how hot they are but how easily they can be altered. Easier to alter a bat than a ball. Just another point of view to think about.

My teams stance with the advanced ball. We have used this ball since day one of the season. We also finished the year with them last year. I will agree with what most have said on this thread. We will not use an Advanced ball unless one is being used against my team. Wheter we like it or not there will be teams and parks allowing them. I will not allow another team to have an advantage with legal equipment if I can prevent it. Before someone says anything. I would like to ask you this. If you feel so strong about the safety due to a legal ball in USSSA as of today. Why are you swinging a composite bat instead of a wooden or aluminim bat. If you have truley taken the stance with the ball, take the stance with the bat. Safety issues would be seen immediatly and your team would save several thousands dollars on equipment alone allowing you to play more throughout the summer.

I can't wait for the Easton Skilz. Wegs, I hope you have a full tourney! I just hope to be in town to come an watch. Everyone swinging the same bat. We will get to see who can hit HR and who needs help!

To the post about control. When you coach it's not about control! It's about respect for your players and the fundementals of the game. When you have players that respect you back, it's not hard for them to listen and play the game as it should be!

Sorry for the spelling and Grammar. That's not exactly one of my strong points.

[KOSTOFF2]

Lets all step back an re-read the original post.

June, 2008

My team will not use the Dudley ball for the balance of 2008. We will use Worth, Spirits or whatever the park provides.

Signed:
__________________
Larks Blog Click Here

Before calling me or my team out please read everything not just a few sentences here and there throughout the whole thread. The original post was Dudley Ball! Someone comes back and says the parks banned the dudley Ball. Until Wessell clearified the Advance ball only being banned. My question was what ball are they going to use? I presume some one had a second thought or someone was given wrong information. Which goes back to over reacting before all the information was available. Thanks Bill (I presume) for clearifing which Dudly ball will be used for the conference. Now with Bill stating the ball being used for Conference how many teams are banning it due to the original post? Sounds silly but now we got the whatever the park provides part which is the Dudley Ball.

My opinion is this: The advanced ball with certain types of bats would have to be above the allowances to be certified for the game. But the ball or bat tested individually are within the certifications of the game. Im not sure of the model of bat that was used during the accident. But I was told a Synergy CNT one-piece? Is this the same bat used in other similar situtions? There is a reason these bats are going for the prices i have seen from $350-$600. Where is the thread to ban the Easton scx22? Do we have a pattern with this certain bat? Not by any means saying something was wrong with the bat used this weekend, But from my understanding this is one of the most sought after bats not only how hot they are but how easily they can be altered. Easier to alter a bat than a ball. Just another point of view to think about.

My teams stance with the advanced ball. We have used this ball since day one of the season. We also finished the year with them last year. I will agree with what most have said on this thread. We will not use an Advanced ball unless one is being used against my team. Wheter we like it or not there will be teams and parks allowing them. I will not allow another team to have an advantage with legal equipment if I can prevent it. Before someone says anything. I would like to ask you this. If you feel so strong about the safety due to a legal ball in USSSA as of today. Why are you swinging a composite bat instead of a wooden or aluminim bat. If you have truley taken the stance with the ball, take the stance with the bat. Safety issues would be seen immediatly and your team would save several thousands dollars on equipment alone allowing you to play more throughout the summer.

I can't wait for the Easton Skilz. Wegs, I hope you have a full tourney! I just hope to be in town to come an watch. Everyone swinging the same bat. We will get to see who can hit HR and who needs help!

To the post about control. When you coach it's not about control! It's about respect for your players and the fundementals of the game. When you have players that respect you back, it's not hard for them to listen and play the game as it should be!

Sorry for the spelling and Grammar. That's not exactly one of my strong points.

I do have to agree that if the other team is using them and putting your pitcher at risk, they honestly have nobody to complain about the balls too. If the other team can put them in play, they should only expect the same from the opposition.

[Stabber25]

If you're going to change the batter's box, you first need to start by drawing it and getting the umpires to enforce it. If the lines aren't drawn, it's hard for the umpire enforce it. My question is this though: aside from those who run up in the box, how much of a difference will this make? As I understand the rule, you only have to have 1 foot in the box, so I'm not sure how it will have that much of an affect.

[bwoods21]

USB played in a C/D NIT last year at Expressway in July. A player on our team was called out twice for running up on the ball before he could even run to 1st because the umpire said they were cracking down on that to protect the pitcher??? That was the only time in my softball history that I have ever seen that called. I've seen the occasional stepping in front of the plate but never called out for running up on the ball. Has anyone else ever seen this called, like I said it was a C/D NIT at Expressway against Design Concepts. I thought that would be the start of a standard batter's box but nothing has changed since...Any thoughts?!?!

[JHAMP]

I've seen the occasional stepping in front of the plate

I'd be happy if someone would call this but no such luck so far.

[bwoods21]

I'd be happy if someone would call this but no such luck so far.

We got one this weekend against Spitz Seeds :)

[28SS]

If you're going to change the batter's box, you first need to start by drawing it and getting the umpires to enforce it. If the lines aren't drawn, it's hard for the umpire enforce it. My question is this though: aside from those who run up in the box, how much of a difference will this make? As I understand the rule, you only have to have 1 foot in the box, so I'm not sure how it will have that much of an affect.

We don't need to "change" anything. Just properly enforce the rule.

[28SS]

USB played in a C/D NIT last year at Expressway in July. A player on our team was called out twice for running up on the ball before he could even run to 1st because the umpire said they were cracking down on that to protect the pitcher??? That was the only time in my softball history that I have ever seen that called. I've seen the occasional stepping in front of the plate but never called out for running up on the ball. Has anyone else ever seen this called, like I said it was a C/D NIT at Expressway against Design Concepts. I thought that would be the start of a standard batter's box but nothing has changed since...Any thoughts?!?!

The closest I saw was at Eggleston last year. A guy took his stance next the catcher & the umpire would not allow us to pitch to him until he got in the box. The batter asked him to show him the box-the ump took his bat & drew a box for him. The guy cryed like a little girl with a skinned knee, but he got homself in the box.

[Stabber25]

I'd be happy if someone would call this but no such luck so far.

Hamp, I'd say stepping in front of the plate gets called far more often(relatively speaking) than actually being out of the box. Umpires are decent about that one.

[Stabber25]

We don't need to "change" anything. Just properly enforce the rule.

That's my point: how many people are truly "out" of the actual box? Doesn't seem to me that increased enforcement or a change would make much of a difference. And am I correct in saying you only have to have one foot in?

[JHAMP]

Hamp, I'd say stepping in front of the plate gets called far more often(relatively speaking) than actually being out of the box. Umpires are decent about that one.

Oh I without a doubt agree but how many times could/should it be called compared to how many times it actually is.

Everytime I've heard someone say something about the box the umps reply is you only have to have 1 foot touching the preverbial line of the box.

[phatneff]

I'd be happy if someone would call this but no such luck so far.

I've actually called that numerous times in the CSL leagues!! Of course, that's a totally different situation.

I don't see why this is such an issue with the umpires to catch this. Apparently, they can see when a ball is caught in the outfield and when a runner tags up at the same time, but they can't call balls and strikes and see if the batter steps in front of the plate???? AMAZING!!!!! It's in the same line of sight!!

I actually had an umpire tell me a week ago that he was so good that he can move one eye in one direction and the other eye in another direction when I asked him if he actually saw the play where runner at first should have been safe at first by over a step. I said you have to watch the runner touch the base and listen for the catch by the first baseman. He said "I saw both." When asked how he could do that, that is when he said the above statement. Ridiculous.

When some umpires don't know fundamentals of umping, then you won't see many concerning issues enforced.

[Cowboy]

I actually had an umpire tell me a week ago that he was so good that he can move one eye in one direction and the other eye in another direction when I asked him if he actually saw the play where runner at first should have been safe at first by over a step. I said you have to watch the runner touch the base and listen for the catch by the first baseman. He said "I saw both."

Part iguana!?!?!? Mr. Lizard!!!!

[JDizzle21]

In Texas they put the rooster tail looking things around the box. They kind of looked like the golf tees that are flimsy and never break. Just having something around the box would reduce the amount of times it happens.

[JHAMP]

Here's how

[phatneff]

LOL!! That was him!!!

[JHAMP]

LOL!! That was him!!!

Well now you know.

[iplayeball]

In Texas they put the rooster tail looking things around the box. They kind of looked like the golf tees that are flimsy and never break. Just having something around the box would reduce the amount of times it happens.

BAM, we have a solution....matter of fact, park directors please PM me and I will gladly donate some funds to this cause....I am in for a $100 if the major parks in the city will do something about it....I would also like to see the batters box shortened......I agree with the poster above stating that it dont happen as often as we think, BUT it does happen alot. And if the batter is thinking in the back of his mind he might get called on it if he is close, then I think that alone will stop the running up so far. If you shorten the box, make the batter stand further back and closer to the plate, then th epitcher will be able to jam the batter, that alone makes for a more safe enviroment. Fella's, we have to protect the pitcher, he is a sitting duck per the rules we go by today, it is gonna take someone dying before we realize how dangerous it is to pitch. Shorten the box by half and I would be willing to gamble my life that we could protect the pitcher and cut the injury rate down to next to nothing....Shortening th ebox is a discussion for the offseason as we cannot implement this rule in the middle of a season, being it is a uSSSA rule.....but we can enforce the already written rule by using those little frizzy things and by telling our umpires to start enforcing it. In the offseason, we get together and get the box shortened by half. i kow it sounds drastic but i dont want to give up good balls and bats when we could just do something as simple as looking into the batters box...Why dont we give it a try for a few weekends, I know park directors read this stuff, instruct your umpires to get strict on this rule, anyone argues your judgement, they are gone. Try it for a while nd see how many batters cannot and will not hit middle...I mean if I am wrong, at least we tried, right? thats all we're doing with the protest of a ball, is trying......But if I am right, then we all get to use great equipment and still feel like we made a difference in player safety.

Pigpen.....you are correct on the CNT+....we are all looking for the culprit of the problem and its starring us right in the face.....They dont get much hotter than a CNT+. I would pull a Danny Saylor on that bat.

[JHAMP]

I would also like to see the batters box shortened......I agree with the poster above stating that it dont happen as often as we think, BUT it does happen alot. And if the batter is thinking in the back of his mind he might get called on it if he is close, then I think that alone will stop the running up so far. If you shorten the box, make the batter stand further back and closer to the plate

So how is shorteneing the box going to do anything about how close the batter is to the plate? At max the batter will still be 3 1/2 feet away from home plate.

[iplayeball]

I mean how close the batter is to running out of the box....or how close he is to stepping up and out of the box....Trust me, if you shorten the box, the batter is at the disadvantage here....We have trid it in BP more than once.....we play a game in BP, we shorten the box and see how far we can hit it without stepping or running up on the ball. We have a raised box at one of the places we hit and if you step out of the box you might sprain an ankle, it impairs your ability to hit it anywhere you want as opposed to only hitting it where the pitcher pitches it.

[iplayeball]

and by shortening the box, I mean shorten it both length and width. Try it out at your next BP session.

[JDizzle21]

I mean how close the batter is to running out of the box....or how close he is to stepping up and out of the box....Trust me, if you shorten the box, the batter is at the disadvantage here....We have trid it in BP more than once.....we play a game in BP, we shorten the box and see how far we can hit it without stepping or running up on the ball. We have a raised box at one of the places we hit and if you step out of the box you might sprain an ankle, it impairs your ability to hit it anywhere you want as opposed to only hitting it where the pitcher pitches it.

Wouldnt you be forced more to hit it back up the box?

[JHAMP]

I mean how close the batter is to running out of the box....or how close he is to stepping up and out of the box....Trust me, if you shorten the box, the batter is at the disadvantage here....We have trid it in BP more than once.....we play a game in BP, we shorten the box and see how far we can hit it without stepping or running up on the ball. We have a raised box at one of the places we hit and if you step out of the box you might sprain an ankle, it impairs your ability to hit it anywhere you want as opposed to only hitting it where the pitcher pitches it.

So I guess your changing the rules of the batters box while your at it? As of right now you only need one foot in the box.

I'm not buying into the fact that you can't hit a ball as far not running up on it as you can standing still. There is not one Major player that runs up on the ball and they hit the ball further than anyone. Shortening the box might effect their power numbers a little bit due to them catching the ball off of the end of the bat but it won't effect where they hit the ball.

Polished hitters hit the ball where the pitcher pitches it. If a pitcher throws a middle to outside pitch they run the risk of getting buzzed. Most hitters will pull a middle to inside pitch.

[JHAMP]

and by shortening the box, I mean shorten it both length and width. Try it out at your next BP session.


So out of curosity, I would like to hear the dimentions of your batters box.

[iplayeball]

Wouldnt you be forced more to hit it back up the box?

NO...try it out at BP...we hit a few times a week so we are always looking for ways to kill the boredom of repetition....os no you do not get many hits back up the box....unless the pitcher throws you way outside and you want to swing at a for sure BALL.....

[bombsaway]

hit the ball where its pitched easy as that.. no need to start moving around in the box,if something works i wouldnt try and fix it.

[iplayeball]

So I guess your changing the rules of the batters box while your at it? As of right now you only need one foot in the box.

I'm not buying into the fact that you can't hit a ball as far not running up on it as you can standing still. There is not one Major player that runs up on the ball and they hit the ball further than anyone. Shortening the box might effect their power numbers a little bit due to them catching the ball off of the end of the bat but it won't effect where they hit the ball.

Polished hitters hit the ball where the pitcher pitches it. If a pitcher throws a middle to outside pitch they run the risk of getting buzzed. Most hitters will pull a middle to inside pitch.

Yes, change the rules of the box as well...WHY NOT? would you rather keep the rules the same yet use socks and single walls? I would take single walls and .50 cores anyday of the week but I doubt that happens.
The major guys are all freaks of nature and can hit it further than you or I with a wooden bat, and us swinging composites....I am talking from a personal standpoint at our BP sessions. You are correct it wont effect where they hit the ball but it will force MOST batters to stand a little close rto the plate, therefore allowing the pitcher to work the batter a little more. And you cant tell me that those guys dont push the envolope on getting close to going out of the box. I dont see where this is that hard of an idea to comphreend....I take BP all the time, we MIGHT tak enormal BP for 50 swings, after that we always goof around and this is one of the things we play around with.....It hinders your ability to lay into the ball alot when the box is shortened......I will make a youtube video if it will help. I will also get teh dimensions and post them here.

[Larks]

Lets all step back an re-read the original post.

June, 2008

My team will not use the Dudley ball for the balance of 2008. We will use Worth, Spirits or whatever the park provides.

Signed:
__________________
Larks Blog Click Here

Before calling me or my team out please read everything not just a few sentences here and there throughout the whole thread. The original post was Dudley Ball! Someone comes back and says the parks banned the dudley Ball. Until Wessell clearified the Advance ball only being banned.

So its occurred to me that I misunderstood exactly what has been going on. It appears that teams and umpires have allowed the Dudley Advanced ball to be used in leagues, the City Slam, in B/C NITs etc. Not limited to Wessel parks.

The ball that Wessel is using for the conf tourney is the conf tourney approved ball and I have been told they havent been selling these yet here in town. This is the Dudley WS12RF40Y .40 / .300 ball.

Im going to tell my pitchers that anytime we see an advanced ball to throw it back to the dugout since its not been approved for local use. We have most of the teams on here agreeing not to try to use them anymore so hopefully this problem goes away.

Obviously we dont have umpires up to speed on checking so its on us. I apologize for the confusion, obviously many of us here in Cincinnati thought the Advanced ball was legit. It very well may be legit in USSSA but I know for sure its not at Eggleston and Riverstar and I would hazard a guess its not legal at the other local parks. It wont surprise me to see this ball in use in others cities and teams that travel - you will have to make up your mind on how to react. Obviously its a competitive issue for you and I get that. But at least for the 90% of us that play 90% of their softball in Cincinnati, we can do the right thing and stop mixing it in.

Umpires - I would ask that you start looking at softballs prior to use.

[bombsaway]

parks in cincy need to choose one ball and everyone has to buy it from the park they play at easy enough. 44/400 worth ball would be my choice then we wont have any advantages by using a better ball.

[Fourteen4Good]

parks in cincy need to choose one ball and everyone has to buy it from the park they play at easy enough. 44/400 worth ball would be my choice then we wont have any advantages by using a better ball.

Without question that would be the smartest and easiest way to level the playing field. Have Linneman, the directors, and the park managers agree on one ball and one ball only and make it the ONLY option that teams are allowed to use. If the parks offer them for teams to buy, there can be no complaining and there would be no clear cut advantage. If you want to hang on to those Dudleys, Trumps, Evils, or whatever for the times when you play out of town, then so be it. At least everything local would be under control and we would be taking the right steps in order to protect those whom we play against week in and week out. Great post!

[bombsaway]

agreed because like i said i went to alabama in feb. and they couldnt care less about there pitchers, everyone hits the middle,i saw maybe 5 pitchers get hit and one guy got hit 3 times in the same inning. they also use 47 525 dudley advanced titaniums which are stupid hard balls to be hitting.not to mention in the south rolling or shaving your bat isnt considered cheating. so the team i went down with from cincy was at a severe disadvantage there.

[Stabber25]

Yes, change the rules of the box as well...WHY NOT? would you rather keep the rules the same yet use socks and single walls? I would take single walls and .50 cores anyday of the week but I doubt that happens.
The major guys are all freaks of nature and can hit it further than you or I with a wooden bat, and us swinging composites....I am talking from a personal standpoint at our BP sessions. You are correct it wont effect where they hit the ball but it will force MOST batters to stand a little close rto the plate, therefore allowing the pitcher to work the batter a little more. And you cant tell me that those guys dont push the envolope on getting close to going out of the box. I dont see where this is that hard of an idea to comphreend....I take BP all the time, we MIGHT tak enormal BP for 50 swings, after that we always goof around and this is one of the things we play around with.....It hinders your ability to lay into the ball alot when the box is shortened......I will make a youtube video if it will help. I will also get teh dimensions and post them here.

We're comprehending just fine, it just won't affect the game like you think it will...

[bombsaway]

.50 core and single wall = 44/400 and composite imo.

[iplayeball]

We're comprehending just fine, it just won't affect the game like you think it will...

maybe it wont, BUT maybe it will......I have played alot of ball in my 15 years and taken tons of BP, it sure affects our hitting when we shrink our area to stand in.....Now does it make it hard to hit? absolutley not, but it does force you to think about where your standing. I respect your opinion, I just know what I have proven with BP. We will get together at one of these parks during a tourny, find us an open diamond, I have the pitchsafe net so I can carry it in with me...I will pitch to you with me standing behind a net and you standing in my propsed new batters box and we will see how easy it is for you to hit p i s s rockets back at me.......I am telling you it is not that easy. Now if we keep the batters box that you currently use, YES it wont make that much a difference. Shrinkin gthe batters box allows us to keep our bats, keep our balls and still play the game.....If not, in a few years we will be basically playing SOFTball...