BANNED BALLS/SHAVED BATS

[rick2082]

I specifically challenged Terry Walton (Blitz), Rob Schlemmer(EAP), Mike Foulks (MFAB), Fred Trammell (House Rules), Bret Kostoff (Jtaps), Ben Morlien (K & W), Mike Cope (Cope Sports), Dave Steinmetz (Cronin), Dan Feichtner (PRI), John Tomlinson (Hart Rest), Kevin Henn (Sentry), Kevin Mell (D & S), Tommy Watkins (Sports Co), Chris Fogt (JLC) & Darren Walters (Weller Roofing) and whoever else to join me. We represent the top 15 or so local teams in the Great Lakes Region. Lets set an example.


I put my WORTH EST bat back in my bag AND used it Thursday. I also challenged the above to do the same. If you can hit, it doesn't matter what bat you use.


I walked around the ballpark before our 815 and 1015 games and seen, that after all the talk of juiced/shaved bats, EVERYONE was still using them.
I called out Kostoff, he had his EST with him, but continued to swing his Miken.

I guess i'm the only dumbass that cares.
I will continue to use my EST this weekend at Eggleston.

If others aren't going to step up, then maybe it'll take more serious injuries for those of you who talk, to actually give a s**t.

Rick Petrosky

[ps3gamer101]

softball is a joke any more.. every body wants to hit bombs so there for people are all juiced up on steroids and swings shaved bats and its all to hit homeruns wow you guys are good..

[huntinfred]

I may take steroids , shave my Miken , and use frozen balls ..... but " I DON'T HIT HOMERUNS" ... I have to draw the line there brother

[KOSTOFF2]

I specifically challenged Terry Walton (Blitz), Rob Schlemmer(EAP), Mike Foulks (MFAB), Fred Trammell (House Rules), Bret Kostoff (Jtaps), Ben Morlien (K & W), Mike Cope (Cope Sports), Dave Steinmetz (Cronin), Dan Feichtner (PRI), John Tomlinson (Hart Rest), Kevin Henn (Sentry), Kevin Mell (D & S), Tommy Watkins (Sports Co), Chris Fogt (JLC) & Darren Walters (Weller Roofing) and whoever else to join me. We represent the top 15 or so local teams in the Great Lakes Region. Lets set an example.


I put my WORTH EST bat back in my bag AND used it Thursday. I also challenged the above to do the same. If you can hit, it doesn't matter what bat you use.


I walked around the ballpark before our 815 and 1015 games and seen, that after all the talk of juiced/shaved bats, EVERYONE was still using them.
I called out Kostoff, he had his EST with him, but continued to swing his Miken.

I guess i'm the only dumbass that cares.
I will continue to use my EST this weekend at Eggleston.

If others aren't going to step up, then maybe it'll take more serious injuries for those of you who talk, to actually give a s**t.

Rick Petrosky

Easy Ricky. You can try and make an example out of me all you want. My EST looks like a Mallet. It has more dents and lumps in it than any bat out there. It was actually given to me by my Cousin Richie Jones because I didn't even have a bat to put in my bat bag and it was bending, just wanted something to fill my bag. Quit trying to call me out like I don't care. I don't even own a bat, I have the EST for the reason I stated above. If I don't care about injuries, why did I buy our pitcher a helmet? Why was I the first to sign to get rid of the balls when I just have a dozen sitting here at my house brand new?

Bottom Line: NOBODY IS GOING TO NOT SWING SOMETHING THEY SPENT $200-$450 FOR! I am sure as hell not going to be the coach to tell my players who spent a lot of their money on bats....that they can't use them. I will control what I can control...Which is what balls we throw in.

[KOSTOFF2]

softball is a joke any more.. every body wants to hit bombs so there for people are all juiced up on steroids and swings shaved bats and its all to hit homeruns wow you guys are good..

I have never hit a homerun in my life....I am pretty sure everyone knows I am not on steroids hahahaha, this one actually made me crack up.....

[rick2082]

I didnt mean to actually call you out Brett. Sorry.
I was meaning more of it in the way that you actually had an EST with you, that's a start....thanks!!!

IMO---the balls are just a start.
In "D" ball, you aren't allowed homeruns in NIT/tournaments anyways, maybe one homerun depending on the tournament, and people continue to use the "good" bats, for what???
Accident homeruns for outs??

People that can hit, can still hit with bats 10-15 years old----I'll stop complaining about it now. I guess as long as people feel they need to show off, they'll keep using them.

good luck to all the pitchers/infielders out there.

RP25
RLED/HOFBRAUHAUS

[D 37]

All this talk about shaved bats which definitely is a bigger problem than the dudley ball, why is it that this site allows advertisements such as links in between these threads like bat rolling and shaving at worlds hottestbats.com. If cincinnati's information highway for softball has a direct link to sites like these there will continue to be a lot of illegal bats out there.

[jimburg21]

if you are a pitcher, pitch the ball inside and outside, get back after you pitch it, and buy a helmet. if you are batting, dont use a shaved bat, and dont hit line drives up the middle (you can control where you hit it).

[phatneff]

All this talk about shaved bats which definitely is a bigger problem than the dudley ball, why is it that this site allows advertisements such as links in between these threads like bat rolling and shaving at worlds hottestbats.com. If cincinnati's information highway for softball has a direct link to sites like these there will continue to be a lot of illegal bats out there.

see other threads. the ads are based on content that is spoken in the message boards and not solicited by the owners of the site.

[D 37]

see other threads. the ads are based on content that is spoken in the message boards and not solicited by the owners of the site.

there is also the same link on the main page of the messageboard at the bottom where is says sponsored links. isnt there a way to take these off completely. to the average person looking around on here it would seem like these sites are paying your site to stay on here and everytime they get a customer from this site. just so u know phatneff in know way am i trying to bash you, your administrative team or the site i just think this would help if possible.

[28SS]

I don't make a habit of publicly calling people out......however, one of the teams we played tonight was definitley swinging a shaved bat. It was a half a$$ round robin at Kolping. It was a thrown together team & these upper level players were an embarrassment to the game. They screamed & made noise like with every hit like it meant something. They had a situation where they had bases loaded with 2 outs. The batter came to the plate & got set to hit. Then out of nowhere, a guy in the dugout throws a bat into the batter's box & calls time while the bat is in the air. The batter had no idea another bat was being thrown in. He tossed his original bat aside & grabbed the new bat. He takes a cut & upon impact, everyone on the field heard "the sound". The sound of a shaved bat making contact with the ball. I apologize if I offend anyone....but I've been playing this game for over 20 years. I'm a USSSA D/ASA C player & believe me, I know my best days are behind me. But I could not stomach watching these "guys".....most of them spent 3 mins or more moving dirt around & prancing up to the plate before they would even consider stepping into the box, like the rest of us had all night to wait on them. It was a meaningless D/E round robin at Kolping. Do they feel good about beating lower level teams? Who do these guys think they are? They are good softball players for sure, but does that make them anything more than men who are good at a women's game? This is not about getting beaten. I've been beaten before & by better men. These guys were running their mouths, looking for a fight & generally behaving like absolute a$$es. I'm embarrassed that my D team got into jawwing with them. I expect more class from my guys & I certainly expect more from upper level talent.

[slamit93]

we got plenty of free outs from F bombs though

[rick2082]

If you know for sure the bat was shaved, call the team out----let them decide who has/threw in the bat.
I've done my part, by using my old cheapass $100.00 bat from 10-years ago, and put my $300.00+Synergy Stealth to the side.
It takes more than one to stand up to make a change.

[Avgjoe]

Is it that easy? What is or can the park do about it? There is no machine to prove it at Kolping I assume? We all have played against a shaved bat and when its obvious, what can you do? IMO, you especially dont protest a potentially shaved bat in a meaningless RR tourney, right? Whats the point? Here is where it would be nice to see the parks step up and do something about being able to check these. However, there is a nice cost to go along with this ability and apparently the parks run lean on cashflow as is, correct? The shaved bat issue has to start with the players and it wont be resolved by players. Guys are still and always going to use them because it gives you an edge. For the comment about players using them in D, the homers are irrelevent. The shaved bat makes you hit it harder, not just further. For frozen balls, to me this is nonsense, tomfoolery, and cattywompus (sp). If you are the opposing pitcher, does the ball feel cold? If so, STOP the game! If not, how can you prove the ball has been frozen? End of story!

[28SS]

to me this is nonsense, tomfoolery, and cattywompus (sp)

Ha ha, Well said!

[cannonforanarm]

not to pick on kolping because it is not the park's fault... but it seems that "teams" like described above (talking, prancing, acting like complete dicks) are always playing there because they can get away with their behavior there... just an observation

[28SS]

If you know for sure the bat was shaved, call the team out----let them decide who has/threw in the bat.

As soon as they heard us talking about that bat, it disappeared. I agree, something must be done. That "team" was comprised of players from at least 4 real teams that I know of for sure & they all know what they were swinging. They hit the snot out of the ball as it is. Why do they feel the need to use it? Especially against a struggling D team in a meaningless round robin.

[britton35]

yea i know what you mean 28ss it happened to us in a round robin up at kolping a month ago same bat was gettng swung nothing else and hitting the crap out of the ball and the sound of it was wierd like there has been work done to it

[28SS]

yea i know what you mean 28ss it happened to us in a round robin up at kolping a month ago same bat was gettng swung nothing else and hitting the crap out of the ball and the sound of it was wierd like there has been work done to it

Honestly, what bothered me the most was how these guys conducted themselves. They acted like a bunch of prima donnas that are bigger than the game. Maybe these guys are bench players on their regular teams & got excited because they actually got a chance to play.

After having witnessed them in action, I feel dirty & sick inside.

[phatneff]

there is also the same link on the main page of the messageboard at the bottom where is says sponsored links. isnt there a way to take these off completely. to the average person looking around on here it would seem like these sites are paying your site to stay on here and everytime they get a customer from this site. just so u know phatneff in know way am i trying to bash you, your administrative team or the site i just think this would help if possible.

We could, but the Google ads help support our website. Go to any other softball website and you'll see the same thing. The more you talk about the subject, the more ads you'll see for them. It's part of being on the internet.

I didn't take it as you bashing us at all. It's just the way of the internet. Yes, we get paid a few cents per click of an ad, but we don't control what ads show up. The conversations on the message boards dictate that.

[EXP23]

IMO, you especially dont protest a potentially shaved bat in a meaningless RR tourney, right? Whats the point?

You sure do! The round robin isn't the world tournament but what is the difference in what kind of tournament you are in if you pitcher takes one in the face. I am sure your pitcher won't be in recovery after surgery and say, "you know what? I would have bi+ched about that bat but it was a round robin."

Bottom line, there will always be shaved bats. People want to win so bad they will do whatever it takes to gain an edge on competition. As long as these jackasses get by with it in round robins or league play, we will see them in qualifiers too. Sorry for the inconvenience but if someone is using one against us, I will have it gone whether it is a round robin or the World Tournament.

As far as stopping "hot bats" from being made by manufacturers, that won't stop because there is WAY TOO MUCH $ to be had. While your intentions are good calling everyone out to stop using them, as long as they are legal bats, you will see them being used. Cincinnati is playing at a disadvantage with other areas due to the crackdown locally on sanctioning so who in their right mind is going to roll into a tournament swinging 1980's Bombats?

Anymore, you are an idiot if you buy a used bat from somebody you don't know. Sure you can save money going used but if the bat is altered and you use it and hurt somebody, guess who's ass is on the hot seat.

[28SS]

Good point EXP23...........

[Avgjoe]

but the question raised as far as protesting the bat:

What can the park do about confirming if the bat is shaved or not? Its not a ball where you can feel if it is cold. Its also not a player where you can do a roster check. These are firm ways to PROVE right or wrong. There is no concrete way to prove if the bat is illegal unless it was performed in a sloppy manner. I just cant imagine protesting every bat that I perceive as illegal and shaved with no way to PROVE it. Plus, are you willing to pay the $50 in a tourney every time you think you know its shaved? I doubt it! I wouldnt! Thats not realistic. Reprocussions of protesting bats are 1. You make the park look inept and bad bc they cant prove it. You cant prove it. 2. You as the protester would get a helluva rep by being the guy that accuses, with no evidence, shaved bats all around the city.

This reminds me of a fav movie, A Few Good Men. " It doesnt matter what I believe, its what I can prove"

[28SS]

I personally believe in taking the field & playing. I don't cry & whine about illegal rosters, illegal bats, bad calls, ect. If you have to cheat to beat me....whatever you can live with. I do have a problem with players disrespecting the game. Some players think they can do whatever the hell they want to do, without regard for what's right. There's a sense of entitlement that certain players carry with them that is just flat disgusting. I love the game of softball, but I really hate "softball guy".

[HH24]

orange crush.. leagal or not?

[bombsaway]

crush and re issue are not asa legal

[slamit93]

crush and re issue are not asa legal

wrong... the crush that came out in 2004 is still ASA legal. The reissue that came out in 2007 is not ASA legal.

The way that you can tell them apart is that the ASA legal crush has the gold "crush" logo on the taper whereas the reissue has a black and white "running bird" (mizuno shoe logo) and says (as dumb as this is) "Original" on it.

LEGAL:
http://www.softballjunk.com/images/mizunoCrush.jpg

NOT LEGAL:

http://www.dowdlesports.com/catalog/athletic/Mizuno/Techfire_Crush%201.jpg


What's really stupid about the whole thing is most online retailers are using a recycled image that actually shows both versions of the bat...

[bombsaway]

thats just weird that they would ban one and let the other be used there the same model number. i guess the re issue isnt that banzi metal or whatever they used in the og.the og crush's were rather hot i thought they were already grandfathered in to asa with the syn 2 and freak at 100mph+

[28SS]

orange crush.. leagal or not?


Ha......original Crush is ASA legal, reissue is not legal

[slamit93]

there the same model number.im pretty shure same bat just re issued so both not asa legal.100mph+preformance

no... that's the confusion with it, and why I would have sold mine if I still had it...

Same model number, but if you look at the list of ASA approved bats, it specifically states the crush with out the words "Original" is approved and shows the bat with the running bird as the banned bat.

Major F up at Mizuno as far as I am concerned... hopefully the tournament directors for the important ASA tournaments (ATTENTION DANNY SAYLOR) are aware of this, because otherwise it's gonna be a game stopper over and over again...

[slamit93]

Ha......original Crush is ASA legal, reissue is not legal

here we go again... lol

[slamit93]

thats just weird that they would ban one and let the other be used there the same model number. i guess the re issue isnt that banzi metal or whatever they used in the og.the og crush's were rather hot i thought they were already grandfathered in to asa with the syn 2 and freak at 100mph+

Honestly I'm willing to bet that what it is is that they knew that the reissue might not pass the 98mph test (it is a 100mph bat like the freak and synergy 2 and a few others but not 100+) and were trying to avoid risking getting the OGs banned in the process, so never submitted it for testing, but there is no telling. It was a decent ASA bat in i's day, but I don't think anyo9ne in their right mind would put it in the same class as the OG freak or the Synergy 2. It's kind of like how the OG freak was never submitted for testing in NSA, so isn't NSA legal, but the Freak Limited (exact same bat except for the tiny "limited" on the sticker) WAS, and is legal for NSA...

[bombsaway]

dont know why the og crush isnt banned either those bats were stupid hot

[slamit93]

they were decent, but they weren't THAT crazy hot... my freak 98 and all of my mayhems are every bit as hot if not hotter, and the only reason I even bought the reissue was because the lady friend got pissed because my OG Crush was her favorite bat... I wouldn't put it anywhere near any of my utrip bats though

[slapper1]

Brett makes some good points. I have a hold Springsteel in my bag but I will never pull it out. I by no means hit bombs and the majority of my cuts go to the third base line or six hole. I feel like I am pretty good at controlling where I hit the ball. The extra a$$ that I get by swinging a Freak gets that ball thru the sixer or past the third baseman just a second faster than old bats and without that second, I would probably get thrown out. Even with trying to slap and hit chalk I still sent a pitcher out in an ambulance during the slam. I thought I was going to throw up on the field I felt so bad. Anyway, I am all for banning the balls and wearing masks but when it comes down to it, this is still a sport not an exact science. Adult soccer players tear their ACL's left and right playing soccer and leagues still allow slide tackling (right Neff). I know ACL injuries are not life threatening but there will always be "chance" in any sport. I am bored at work and done yapping.....good points Brett.

[KOSTOFF2]

Brett makes some good points. I have a hold Springsteel in my bag but I will never pull it out. I by no means hit bombs and the majority of my cuts go to the third base line or six hole. I feel like I am pretty good at controlling where I hit the ball. The extra a$$ that I get by swinging a Freak gets that ball thru the sixer or past the third baseman just a second faster than old bats and without that second, I would probably get thrown out. Even with trying to slap and hit chalk I still sent a pitcher out in an ambulance during the slam. I thought I was going to throw up on the field I felt so bad. Anyway, I am all for banning the balls and wearing masks but when it comes down to it, this is still a sport not an exact science. Adult soccer players tear their ACL's left and right playing soccer and leagues still allow slide tackling (right Neff). I know ACL injuries are not life threatening but there will always be "chance" in any sport. I am bored at work and done yapping.....good points Brett.


Thanks.

I will say it again, after everything that has happend with pitchers getting hit...If you pitch and have no protection on...you honestly have nobody but to blame but yourself if you get hit in the face. You cannot ask hitters to not try and hit gaps and up the middle....IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. There is probably only one guy on this whole message board that can honestly hit just to the side of pitcher on either side he wants everytime and he plays for Dan Smith. Some are way better than others at placing the ball....but what kills me is....I hit a ball up the middle and the pitcher caught the ball right in front of his face. Scary, trust me...but I was actually trying to burn the CF....so accidents do happen.

So include me in one that got lucky that he caught it....but myself included with the 2 players that actually hit the pitchers....are 3 people that are known for being able to place the ball pretty much where they want and those are also 3 people I know for a fact weren't trying to hit it at the pitcher....ACCIDENTS HAPPEN.

[CWA 44]

wrong... the crush that came out in 2004 is still ASA legal. The reissue that came out in 2007 is not ASA legal.

The way that you can tell them apart is that the ASA legal crush has the gold "crush" logo on the taper whereas the reissue has a black and white "running bird" (mizuno shoe logo) and says (as dumb as this is) "Original" on it.

LEGAL:
http://www.softballjunk.com/images/mizunoCrush.jpg

NOT LEGAL:

http://www.dowdlesports.com/catalog/athletic/Mizuno/Techfire_Crush%201.jpg


What's really stupid about the whole thing is most online retailers are using a recycled image that actually shows both versions of the bat...


I played in an asa tournament at Eggleston and they would not let me swing my crush. The one I have is the 1st picture here... CONFUSED!!!!!!

[HH24]

danny told us monday we could use it. I just thought it was not legal. wierd cause that is a pretty hot bat.

[sqwrl11]

Brett, you shouldn't be trying to burn anybody! LOL

[KOSTOFF2]

Brett, you shouldn't be trying to burn anybody! LOL

Come on kid!! Just cause you can track down everything I hit like a hawk doesn't mean everybody else can. If I learned one thing from Friday nights at K of C besides that the team I am on plays like Game 7 of the World Series....it's that if you don't feel like getting on base, hit the ball in the vicinity of TOBY!

[wells21]

We must be thinking of two differnet Tobys. lol The one I know just plants his azz behind the dish umping tuesday night leagues! LOL

[JHAMP]

The one I know just plants his azz behind the dish umping tuesday night leagues! LOL

How's this? Is he on a step-stool to see over the catcher?

[sqwrl11]

Wellsy- I have no idea what you're talking about, but I'll "planting" again tonight.

Brett- That Friday night league is the only time I ever get to play the outfield, or better yet the only time I WANT to play the outfield. I'm too old for that stuff. You young guys can do that all you want! And that pitcher needs to be checked for mental stability, because he almost got his azz kicked!

[KOSTOFF2]

Wellsy- I have no idea what you're talking about, but I'll "planting" again tonight.

Brett- That Friday night league is the only time I ever get to play the outfield, or better yet the only time I WANT to play the outfield. I'm too old for that stuff. You young guys can do that all you want! And that pitcher needs to be checked for mental stability, because he almost got his azz kicked!

Haha. Last week he threw his glove as hard as he could down in the dirt and then let it fly in the stands. Now with that guy on your team....you better bring your A game! He might be pitching for J Taps before you know it.

[sqwrl11]

Hamp, I told BT no more short jokes, this goes for you to!

[pezarelli711]

im pretty sure the original crush is asa banned buddy have u looked on the asa website. i hope im wrong but i doubt it.

[slamit93]

I played in an asa tournament at Eggleston and they would not let me swing my crush. The one I have is the 1st picture here... CONFUSED!!!!!!

I doubt that will happen again at the egg... We picked up a guy off of another team for our league game last night... and he happened to be swinging an OG crush... Needless to say, it was called out once we took a lead, and 25 minutes later we got back to finishing our game...

Had to wait for the ump to go get the book, try to make sense of it, then Dave Maury came out... they decided it was good, then Dave spent another 15 minutes in our dugout looking at the bat and the book and finally ruled it legal...

We were making jokes about it all night long, but the guy that was swinging it said it happens almost every time he plays.

The confusion is that the crush that came out in 2004 is called the Techfire Crush, and the reissue is called the Original Techfire Crush or something to that point, so everyone sees "original crush" on the list and assume that it actually is the 2004 crush that is banned, but it isn't... it is the 2007 crush reissue that says ORIGINAL on it that is banned...

[slamit93]

im pretty sure the original crush is asa banned buddy have u looked on the asa website. i hope im wrong but i doubt it.

Well... You are wrong too then... Courtesy of ASA's website:

http://www.jakehillman.com/images/crush_is_legal.bmp

[UFreak]

I didn't take it as you bashing us at all. It's just the way of the internet. Yes, we get paid a few cents per click of an ad, but we don't control what ads show up. The conversations on the message boards dictate that.

got it!

PORN, FLORIDA GATORS, HOOTER GIRLS, FLORIDA GATORS, BIKINI BEOTCHES, FLORIDA GATORS, OIL WRESTLING, FREE BEER, and Florida Gator sports!